Movies Versus Clips

[WAVE]

Here's a question I'd like to pose. Many of the people producing product today call their 10-20 clips "movies". When WAVE first started out in 1987, our definition of a feature length movie was that it should be at least 60 minutes. Hollywood itself used that as a basis for the movies in the 30s, 40s, and 50s.

So most of our early movies were at least that length. Over the years, that changed, but we usually tried to include another storyline short if the feature was less than an hour. That wasn't always the case, but that was the goal.

So what my question is what constitutes a movie?

My original idea was to produce full length movies and show much of what was skipped, or not shown, in mainstream movies. Now it seems the goal for everyone is to get to the killing as soon as possible and to hell with any plot or characterization.

That's one of the reasons WAVE's production has dropped so much. I want to make full length movies, but it seems most customers now just want short 10-20 minutes clips and to hell with full length movies!

And before anyone asks if I don't know what this forum features, I do. But most of G-Man's reviews are of full length movies. I've always thought "the journey is just as important as the destination".

What happened to "the journey"? What happened to the buildup of suspense? What happened to patience? Or is that just world we live in?

Am I wrong? I'm just curious.

Gary

[Bluestone]

Gary,

I think there are several issues involved here.

Firstly, we are in the age of downloads, and even with the increased bandwidth and hard drive space available to a lot of customers, most would rather simply download a rather short clip containing the fetish material than wait ages to download a 60 minute movie. Cost is, of course, always a factor.

Secondly, this is not about competing with Hollywood. I would say that most fetishers cannot simply pop in a 60 Minute necro DVD and watch it on a Saturday night with the Mrs. I certainly can't, but I can sneak a peek now and again at a 7 minute short featuring Petra being shot in those magnificent breasts of hers.

Now, having worked with Dean Paul, we've often analyzed the Wave movies, which helped to pioneer this fetish community. His opinion was that the plots were often stretched out, as opposed to condensed. Length for length's sake should never be the standard. I cannot agree that a 7-10 minute video has to be devoid of plot. All of my videos have an introduction of the lovely star, a background to her situation, and the ultimate death scene. There's very little filler, but some of the plots are just as detailed as at least some 30 minute movies.

Well, that's just my opinion, but I feel that this market is looking to get to the death scene quicker and would rather condensed plot than no plot or drawn out plots.

I don't mean to offend. I'm just stating my honest opinion.

I hope you're asking these questions because you have something in the hopper, Gary. You've always pushed the envelop since the early days, so don't stop now

Blue

[Mac]

Hi Gary.



I would tend to agree with you about 60 minutes of film being classed as a 'Movie'.

I think most people aren't interested in "the journey".
They just want to reach the "destination" as quickly as possible.

I tend to buy 'Clips' of about 8 - 12 minutes which usually make a token gesture to some kind of storyline.

What i've been doing lately is breaking down a long movie into segments that interest me and then re-assembling them.
This is solely for my own use and I don't post them on any Board.

Another thing I've been trying is editing and joining 2 or 3 of the short 5 minute clips into something that approaches some kind of story.


I do hope you (WAVE PRODUCTIONS) start makeing shorter length 'features' as you have the track record for turning out good material.

[UKSG]

Hi All, we still shoot and producer 60 minute movies with plot driven stories. But we are lucky our top end clients pay up to 20 thousand pounds for them believe it or not. In fact we have just completed a 60 minute movie for one of our top end clients and she was very happy with it.

For the public domain it makes sense to make a 5 minute video, when you consider the download bandwidth and the return in revenue you’d be making a big lost if your movies are longer than 4 to 5 minutes. The longer it takes to shoot the video the more you have to pay out and making a good quality video is not cheep.

[Dalila di Capri]

Hi Gary,

I have seen some of your full length films and respect the work you weere doing in the 1990's.

My answer to the issue you raise was to produce full length films that could be presented as episodic.

So far I have produced two: "Dreams Like These" (my best known series) and "Time to say Goodbye".

I made sure that each section had some sort of value, either a shooting a stabbing or some sort of erotic horror content that would be exciting to fans.

So I suppose you could call what I produce "erotic horror series".

By the same token there are any number of film festivals dedicated to "shot" films: That is films that are 10 to 30 minutes in length.

Sometimes these films can be just as well done as full 80 to 90 minute films.
I think that they deserve to be called "films" if they are produced with quality integrity and artistic flare.

There are many fans who fast forward through all the "plot" footage so that they can get to the "good parts": That is, the death scenes.

Some producers ignore plots sets and any pretense of film making in order to just provide the death scene. Others work hard to bring a "full length film" style to their short videos.

Both methods are valid in my opinion.

Baci

[kevin67]

Hi Gary,

I am a big fan of your company, and I loved your concept of having full length death fantasy
features.

It seems that even many mainstream movies today contain too much filler, in order to up the running time to two hours. When you consider the amount of money needed to make even an
hour video, and what you would have to charge, it seems implausible to even try to produce a video of that length. Yet , I would still like to see the type of video's produced by Wave productions and other producers on occasion.

On the other end of the coin ,when I am writing a custom, I tend to be story oriented. Even though the custom may not run more than 15 or 20 minutes, I feel it should have, as you note for you scripts, a beginning, a middle and an end. Sometimes this is as hard to do as when you are writing a more substantial script. Evangeline band Mac are right when they says some people merely fast forward to the part that interest them ,and could care less about a story.

The question is why put a story in your custom at all? The answer is you do it for the ones who do appreciate the story oriented death fetish video. Also, you do it for your own self gratification. You can only kill someone in so many ways (shot, stabbed, arrowed ). However, you can vary how they get to the point where they are killed, and that is my point.

This , of course, is IMHO.

[Bluestone]

I entirely agree that there should always be a backstory, and 99.9% of Silk Videos have that. I think there's one video that has no backstory, which was an adaptation of a Petra AF video, entitled "Backseat Strangler". My sales and customer comments over the years have soundly supported the need for the viewer to know, who is this girl, is she a bad girl who deserves to be killed or an innocent who's in the wrong place at the wrong time. Several fetishers require a bad girl image, a victim who deserves what she gets. Without that, the video does not hit all of the right buttons for the fetish viewer. After all, a climax (pun intended), even in mainstream work, requires a build up to this crucial scene. So, I strongly support at least a backstory. I've just filmed one of Kevin67's customs featuring Petra, Suzi and Meredith. There is definitely a strong storyline with a beginning, middle and end... as well as three babe deaths, which also doesn't hurt

Blue

[UKSG]

Yes but please learn the knowledge of film making, stuff like knowing not to cross the line between cuts, when to use close-ups, mid-shots, big close-ups, and wide shots. Then using them to express a mood and to generate an emotion from the viewer. Learning the basics of lighting, directing actors, how to edit, sound mixing and to grade the final film.

No matter what the story is or how long please I beg you shoot it well! If you only let the scene play out in one shot you might as well be shooting a wedding video or a kid’s birthday party. :-)

[EvilBilly]

Hi, Evangeline: Based on what you've written it appears that you have put a great deal of thought and experience into your future film-making. I for one am looking forward to seeing your new work!

[Dalila di Capri]

Hi, Evangeline: Based on what you've written it appears that you have put a great deal of thought and experience into your future film-making. I for one am looking forward to seeing your new work!

Me too

[bakerboy]

So what my question is what constitutes a movie?

A film ( even if shot on video) of a minimum of 75 minutes in duration and comprising of three act structure.

[Dalila di Capri]

So what my question is what constitutes a movie?

A film ( even if shot on video) of a minimum of 75 minutes in duration and comprising of three act structure.

"32 Short Films About Glen Gould" is also a movie, built upon 32 tiny acts as opposed to 3 25 minute acts.

Here is what is NOT a movie, but a necro video IMO:

Girl is standing in her kitchen, the killer comes in, he shoots, she says Ew you shot me in the belly" He shoots again...she says "Ew you shot me in the right breast" he shoots a third time,
hitting the girl in the breast.
She slides down the kitchen counter very carefully, looking for a soft and comfortable place to land...once on the ground she closes her eyes and holds still.

3 minutes of post death pan shots follow.

All of the producers here at FF are well beyond the film that I describe above so I am sure that I am not offending anyone with this description.

If Gary wants to say that this is NOT a movie then I agree with him.

A movie however can be built upon any number of scales and structures.

[WAVE]

I agree with a lot that has been said, but one of my original points hasn't really been discussed. Should a 15 minute clip be called a "movie" or just that, a "clip". I often call our shorter movies "featurettes".

As for the length and the requirements of the current marketplace, I'm lucky that I started when I did and was able to make a good living for quite a while. I now have a library of titles that continue to sell, although not as well as they once did. But in my case, that's OK because I'm at an age where that doesn't matter.

But when I started in 1987, I did it for the fun of it without ever seriously thinking I could make a living from it, which I have been able to for the last decade and a half.

So now anything I do is because I want to, without having to take into consideration how much it might make me. So I'll remain doing mostly full length features and some shorts and clips and let the sales fall where they may.

Gary

[Bluestone]

Hi Gary,

Have you thought about marketing a title in two versions:

1) A full length feature film or featurette, probably on DVD;

2) Individual death scene clips from the movie, including a little of the background to the death scene, which could be downloaded?

In this way, you could satisfy both markets. For example, I would have been interested in just purchasing a download of Debbie D's death scene from "Play Dead". Then, there could have been other "Play Dead" vignettes, since I believe that movie had multiple death scenes. In this way, you can see what sells the best. If you really don't care about the money, then at least you can continue to do feature films, and not have to decide whether or not you should switch to shorter downloadable clips.

Just a thought

Blue

[WAVE]

I have considered offering some basic clips. The guy at NicheClips providing some of my clips is working with me, but they only sell so-so. I may do more with downloadable clips as time goes on. I'll have to see where I go as far as movies go.

I'm looking to return to our roots a bit with providing movies similar to the old 50s and 60s films, but slightly more graphic. Things like mad scientists, misunderstood creatures, etc.

I'll see how that goes.

Gary