Spoiled???

[G-Man]

I feel or I get the impression a good handful of the newer folks (say last five years) who now are now regular
members of the death fetish community… are a bit spoiled.
Some seem never happy with many death fetish sites or the content being put out by the many fine producers.
Like what ever they produce is never good enough or feel the video is too expensive.
Well to a point and only a fair point… there are some things that can always be improved on, and warrant some
fair criticism.
However… beyond that I feel they’re a lot of spoiled and or are cheap folks out there.
Since buying videos from W.A.V.E. almost 25 years ago, and pretty much they were the only game in town…
to what is available now… we never had it so good!
Between the big four alone… Bluestone, John M., Olaf and Big John / John D together have produced more
enjoyable content in the past five years then was ever produced in the first twenty.
The quality of their videos have made quantum leaps in production, acting, filming/editing, CGI/FX and best of all…
much, much more very attractive women acting in them.
Plus many are doing / performing fetish acts we only were able to daydream about in the past.
Especially… the price of the average video is still about the same what I paid 25 years ago!!!
Again… these producers are making quality videos that are now light years ahead of anything ten years ago.
I know prices of equipment, hosting space and processing speeds exc, exc have gone down… but the most
expensive cost of making a video is female talent… having good looking women that can act has at best…
stayed the same or more likely has gone up in the past 25 years.
Making a multi-death video at best costs at least 1 to 5 thousand dollars (depending of course on how many
victims are in the shoot.)
So a video that costs $2,000... the producer will have to sell at least a hundred to cover the cost. On a really
good day, they might sell something close to that.
I know a lot of the producers do it for the enjoyment... however they still need to cover their costs at least.
Over all we are a small fetish community compared to other adult content sites and I feel
we are very fortunate to have so many good producers.

Once more… some of today’s newer members / lurkers may not realize how good they have it now.
I mentioned this not too long ago… help keep this good thing going… by buying at least one video from a
producer a month or once every other month.

[Max5s]

G-Man,

I have been a part of this community about as long as you have, and I agree with what you are saying. I would like to add one thing. Sophie and Susy from SGA Fantasy Art probably produce more videos in this community (as well as a few others) than anyone and have done so since 2009 (probably close to 1,800 videos). Before that, I'm not sure. Regardless of the numbers, I really appreciate the fact that you made this post because it supports all of the producers that create content for our community.

[Chris B]

Thanks G-Man. CB

[Striktured]

There are two sides to every coin: posters that never say anything negative about often inferior efforts and endlessly post sterling reviews about an often lackluster product. People so desperate to be in the good graces of others, or push their drug, they endlessly bombard fan boards with biased opinions and what can only be seen as advertisements to many.

Like or not, erotic-horror is still bound by the rules of the adult industry. Ugly guy porn usually doesn't sell well to the masses. Stick someone that looks like Jabba The Hut or the Hee-Haw donkey into enough films and your client base will eventually go bye-bye. Repetitive sets, actors and producers named Grant or Anthony that often use their models as personal whores, and even those slow to catch on, or unable to resist the fetish, will eventually wave farewell to their beloved distraction.

Call fans spoiled all you want. They are still leaving en masse and sales are still a shadow of what they were just a couple of years passed. Like it or not, this is a business as you so eagerly point out. It's not the fans that need to convince the makers of this product to buy, it's the other way around. If they use the same sets repeatedly, continue to deemphasize the violence, while using the actresses as they were a part own personal brothel, fans will know and fans will depart. Producers have repeatedly said that this is not porn, yet many continue to act otherwise. Guess what? Custom buyers and actresses often have opinions as well.

Is it the fans fault that they expect better, or a stronger sense of professionalism, after so many years? Why is it wrong to expect a nominal amount of improvement from one year to the next? What do most producers expect is going to happen after their product is made and released after hundreds of units? Is this product better than it was 10 year ago? Most would say yes. Does that give producers an excuse to stop improving? No, it does not. I personally follow Psycho-Thrillers and quite frankly his efforts have consistently gotten worse as his product has risen in price. Furthermore, he is partaking in things he swore he never would and often criticized other producers for doing. Should I be happy with the inconsistencies, promises of a message board that never materialized or a producer that really doesn't even speak with his fanbase anymore? We can applaud the efforts and sing the praises of the makers of this fetish all day (or create phony accounts and a nom de plume to do it themself). However, good movies are the only thing that will convince people to buy.

Call fans spoiled, scream it on the mountaintops if it makes you feel better, but this is still a business. Phony reviews, constant spamming and clever jibes won't convince anyone to buy. Something better, something violent and something consistently ambitious is the only thing that will consistently put more asses in the seats than were previously there. As far as I can tell, it's the same killer, in the same small, familiar set, with a naked or half-naked woman ready and available to please him sexually just before she is murdered. Maybe with a wound or two, likely not. If there is one, the ligature wound will look like hand strangulation trauma. The hand strangulation trauma will look like a ligature wound and all the violent, messy things you hope to see in the flick will once again be excluded in another expensive, oversexed, $25 single girl custom monstrosity. And that's from a producer that does more than most everyone else.

Of course, I'm speaking mainly of sexualized erotic-horror, but it applies to others as well. You can only watch the same thing but so many times without expecting better.

But yea, it's the fans fault.

[Nyghtfall]

As a veteran member of the community (18 years), it's hard to feel spoiled when no one's producing anything of interest, or at a level of quality that's worth spending money on.

We're already half way through May, I've only bought one video so far this year, and it sucked, mainly due to exceptionally shitty editing. I couldn't even salvage it with my own editor.

[JohnM]

Thanks for your comments Gman.

I do agree with the main fact: There is way more and way better stuff then there was when I started in 1997. (but there is a lot of crap too)

And, when I started back then---we were just dipping our toes into the sea of fetish, but quickly surpassed what had already been produced by some of our predecessors. Of course, at the time, we feared that we were skimming the boundaries of obscenity, which turned out, not to be the case---unless you live in Alabama. (or areas of Texas).

But, on the flip side, I don't think producers should be given a break. It is, after all, a market economy. Ruthless, judgmental, and quite honestly--fair. Sure, I get frustrated when the thing I put lots of work into does not do as well as I hoped. Or, when there is one complaint out of 30 accolades. But, that is just doing business. Piracy sucks too.

I am a fetishist at heart. But I also run a business that I depend on for my income. I have employees that depend on me and actors that I give regular work to. I pay my taxes (lots of them), pay my rent, keep my studio property maintained, my utilities current, and generally, am a good business owner. And as such, I have agreed to the code of business within a free market society.

Since 1997, I have seen many stores come and go. The reasons were varied. There were a couple that were blatantly fraudulent. They are long gone now. Many had billing issues that caused insolvency. But most---just sucked. Or maybe they were good for a while, but never changed. Maybe others did not understand the market they were serving or had no actual interest in the fetish. It is hard to know.....but I do know, a lot of come and gone.

But I follow the code. As a business, I know I have to keep folks happy. Not all folks, but I try. I know I have to do better and grow. I know that I cannot take my profits and take vacations or invest in anything other then this very business--for that is how business grow. They are not autopilot. They take constant work, investment and sacrifice.

And it is and will always be like that. Getting into this business to make lots of money is laughable. Gman mentioned that one a good day a movie might sell 100 copies. Maybe prior to 2008. On a good day, 40 copies makes me happy. Last night, my new release is in the top #2 clips sold at NC with 3 copies.

But don't worry. I am a business and I understand these things. Shit happens all the time. Equipment brakes and we struggle to replace it. Payroll is higher then anticipated and we charge up the credit cards to cover it. Actors get sick. Employees go to hospital. Family emergencies. Injuries and effects of getting older. Stuff happens every day and we treat it as just part of being alive and running a business. Last year, we shut the studio down for nearly 2 months----laid off 6 employees right before Christmas because we were short just a few thousand and could not cover it and everything came to a head. We just did what we had to do to regroup and survive. And we are doing well since then. Now a few of you that read this thread know. But, who cares. My job, is just to make great movies and hope that you buy them. To bring in the best actresses I can find and hope that you book them. And if I don't, well that is my fault and I need to fix it. And for 18 years, I keep fixing and making movies.

Thanks,
JohnM

[circum95]

Funny thing that I noticed.
People who publish absolutely premium content - I am thinking of puckart's 007 series and Julian's Nadine Varna - are going away after they get one or two lame thank yous or nothing at all.
While dudes who take a normal porn picture, the girl is even smiling, and add a pixelated arrow or knife plus some red blots in Photoshop, get dozens of 'uh's and 'ah's.
Yes - Young talent needs to be encouraged... but still.

[tommygun]

Call fans spoiled all you want. They are still leaving en masse and sales are still a shadow of what they were just a couple of years passed. Like it or not, this is a business as you so eagerly point out. It's not the fans that need to convince the makers of this product to buy, it's the other way around. If they use the same sets repeatedly, continue to deemphasize the violence, while using the actresses as they were a part own personal brothel, fans will know and fans will depart. Producers have repeatedly said that this is not porn, yet many continue to act otherwise. Guess what? Custom buyers and actresses often have opinions as well.

Is it the fans fault that they expect better, or a stronger sense of professionalism, after so many years? Why is it wrong to expect a nominal amount of improvement from one year to the next? What do most producers expect is going to happen after their product is made and released after hundreds of units? Is this product better than it was 10 year ago? Most would say yes. Does that give producers an excuse to stop improving? No, it does not. I personally follow Psycho-Thrillers and quite frankly his efforts have consistently gotten worse as his product has risen in price. Furthermore, he is partaking in things he swore he never would and often criticized other producers for doing. Should I be happy with the inconsistencies, promises of a message board that never materialized or a producer that really doesn't even speak with his fanbase anymore? We can applaud the efforts and sing the praises of the makers of this fetish all day (or create phony accounts and a nom de plume to do it themself). However, good movies are the only thing that will convince people to buy.

Call fans spoiled, scream it on the mountaintops if it makes you feel better, but this is still a business. Phony reviews, constant spamming and clever jibes won't convince anyone to buy. Something better, something violent and something consistently ambitious is the only thing that will consistently put more asses in the seats than were previously there. As far as I can tell, it's the same killer, in the same small, familiar set, with a naked or half-naked woman ready and available to please him sexually just before she is murdered. Maybe with a wound or two, likely not. If there is one, the ligature wound will look like hand strangulation trauma. The hand strangulation trauma will look like a ligature wound and all the violent, messy things you hope to see in the flick will once again be excluded in another expensive, oversexed, $25 single girl custom monstrosity. And that's from a producer that does more than most everyone else.

I don't know whether to applaud or cry at this one... In the first place, I agree with just about everything that Stricktured says. it is up to the producers to make product that the customers want. And we need to get better and better at it. As a new producer, just 7 pieces into it at this point, I've tried to live by these principles. It's not always easy, especially when you're competing with folks who do four or five pieces a week compared to my one every three weeks or so. A couple of days last week I got exactly ONE visit to my BLACK NYLONS store at NicheClips.

And I made a decision to focus on penetration deaths and bloody results, which restricts my market even more. But I try to do them well, and get better with each film shoot. What I don't get, however, is much in the way of comment and feedback from the customer base. I never really know whether what I did hit the mark for people, or not. I do know that two thirds of my customer base has only bought one film. I take that as bad news. On the other hand, the ones who've bought at least two have bought an average of five. I take that as good news. The bottom line is this, don't be afraid to send a producer a comment, positive or negative, about a work that you've bought. It's hugely helpful in making the product better, which is why I put the blacknylonsfilms@yahoo.com e-mail address in every film and lots of my posts. I always treat the comments confidentially, but believe me, if you, as a customer, want things to improve, feedback is a critical part of the process. Not buying the next one certainly sends the message that you didn't like the first one, but it doesn't necessarily say much about what would have worked better.

[Major_Tom]

... I do know that two thirds of my customer base has only bought one film. I take that as bad news. ... Not buying the next one certainly sends the message that you didn't like the first one, ...

Not necessarily. It may just mean that this one movie contains one or more elements that they found especially appealing to them. Personally I buy a lot of movies from many producers. The one I bought from you was because it features Savannah and she receives a headshot. BTW: I like this scene.

So it doesn't mean your other movies are bad, just not up my alley. A lot depends on personal taste and sometimes detail, it's really hard to tell.

[tommygun]

Thanks, and I very much appreciate that feedback, Major Tom. Certainly the Savannah (she's wonderful, isn't she?) headshot in "The Roommates" was unusual for me, and so the idea that you've only gotten that one film makes perfect sense. And in a way, that's the point. I'm not fussing at anyone, just saying that it's so hard to tell why people buy one film, but not another. The more we get feedback on what someone liked, or didn't, the better we can tailor what we do.

The next shoot, Major, you're on for another headshot!