XXXPorn and the Death Fetish!

[Bluestone]

There was a good discussion about XXX porn and the death fetish on DeadSkirts, but it got erased for some unknown reason. It started from my Genre Videos ad over there, just because 2 of the 17 producers there mix in some XXX porn with their videos.

As everyone should admit, if they're honest with themselves, the fantasy female death fetish includes soft porn, i.e. women being stabbed naked in the shower, etc. Bluestone videos do not include XXX porn, but they do include soft porn elements such as full female nudity, pussy shots, etc. So, what defines the line between porn related to the death fetish, and XXX porn for porn's sake? Some say that it's when the female victim is degraded with cum shots over her face and body, or when the male penis is revealed and shoved into female orifices. What do you think? What do you think should be included in death fetish videos? Personally, I don't want to see male cocks in my videos, but that's just me. What about you?

Obviously, this topic is open for discussion, but not for the purpose of banning xxx porn on FF as Geno is doing on DS. I assume that some of you want XXX porn in your videos. I strongly feel that in the final analysis the customer will decide what they want in their videos and if it's XXX porn, those producers who offer it will do well. The converse is not necessarily true though. If the death fetish customers don't support such productions, the porn market may, and it's a much larger market.

Enough of my thoughts. What are yours on this subject?

Blue

[xj900uk]

Necro XXXPorn does notthing personally for me, Blue, but I accept that there are people out there on this board (& DS) who love it.
As I stated over there, what we are dealing with are actually two fetishes, very similar in some respects but distinctive and different. The first is actually what you do in your videos, namely death fetish with possibly some soft porn where the actual 'death/demise' is the fetish. The second is necrophilia, pure and simple, ie the fetish is actually having sex with dead bodies. The first can often lead to the second, but they are distinctive and need to be disceminated over.

[JohnM]

I will take my producer had off for this. Because, frankly, my views have been the same since I was mature enough to make my own decisions.

I don't care. People can watch what they want and like what they like. Why should I care what others think about what I want to watch. And why should I care what they want to watch. Next thing you know, the conversation is going to start discussing race or the sexual orientation of the actors. Who cares if a dick goes into a vagina? Did someone not get that talk when they were young? Do you know, those on the outside who look at this content categorize it the same? They look at what is is watched for---that is it. Oh, and I do get emails from time to time when I use a black actress. Not nice emails. So yeah, there are awful people lurking about. But, it's an opinion---not a call for censorship.

I have a DA acquaintance (met though my mom who has been a legal sec for most of her life). I was consulting a couple years ago (for C-corp) and sent him some content when he was curious. He was not concerned. However, he said, that while he was not concerned, he personally felt the movies that had no sexual content were slightly more disturbing in that, given that he assumed the movies were for sexual gratification---with no obvious sexual element, it led to his assumption that the kill scene was the main element. That, he said, was what disturbed him. Then he said--who would not want to see a girl getting fucked, no matter what kind of make up was on her (referring to one of my morgues). I have all this in an email. I went on to explain the reasons behind kill scene only element and that they were sexual when referenced to pop culture elements in movies from the past, etc.

But, that has always been my thoughts.

In 1997, Necrobabes released a photoset (one of the first), showing a guy putting his dick in a girls mouth---she was playing dead. I loved it. I had never seen anything like it.

Porn and violence has been engrained in our society way before movies, tv, internet, etc. There will always be porn. There will always be violence. No amount of making movies about it is going to change that. No one is going to get corrupted or grow hairy palms. I have produced over 2500 movies. There are probably well over 20,000 modern era fetish-horror movies (1987-today), with 30-40% having explicit elements. I don't see a rise in violence. Stats show the opposite. And, I have yet to hear a tale of anyone who was so morally offended by seeing a pink scene that they did something drastic.

So, I don't care what people watch or post. I will look at what I want, and not look at what I don't want. Sure, I might screw up and click on a picture of a steaming hot deuce sliding between a girls tits. And, it might, make me throw up in my mouth a little. But, I am a big boy now and where big boy pants. I can take it. I am already craving a pizza and I don't care!

Thanks,
JohnM

[Pennpaul]

While others may not care, except for themselves alone, the "udder" website master seems to disqualify legitimate advertising simply at whim.

Yep, my response also disappeared from Bluestone's original message. As an aside, I too was made to disappear from that website ????

But on the question at hand, I do not nor does Debbie D do XXX porn. I follow the Hitchcock philosophy. I show enough and leave it to the viewer's imagination. Several buyers have expressed astonishment to learn that what they think they see Debbie do, is not real at all.

4P

[smudger]

I see that the thread has returned and is active.

I've always made it clear I don't like porn in clips and whilst I won't say that I would never buy a clip with XXX in it, for me it's a negative factor and the DS element has to be specially good to compensate- often it isn't, and it is true that it often appears that they are vehicles for the porn instead of the snuff.

Fair enough if that is what the customer wants, but for me these aren't true fetish clips.

It seems to me that the real problem with the advert was that Geno has fallen out with Chris Brown, for reasons I don't really understand, and therefore does not want to see his stuff advertised on DS, even by proxy.

Once again, fair enough, it is Geno's site, he makes the rules.

But my experience of the clips I get from Chris is that generally, they don't have porn in them, but are good genuine fetish productions. Then again I only look at shooting clips so can't speak for the other genres that he makes.

[Bluestone]

The porn element is certainly a recurring theme on the forums, but I agree with Smudger that Geno seems to be on a crusade against Chris Brown... not just XXX porn. Sure, it's his message board, and he can do what he likes, but until he stops deleting my ads over there, I will be seeking other forums upon which to advertise. If he wants to keep blinders on his members who don't have dual membership, that's fine, but I'm too busy to be playing games and to be caught in the middle of his latest crusade. After all, there is much more to this community than the DeadSkirts board.

JohnM, keep doing what you're doing. We are all doing what we enjoy. It is irrelevant that we enjoy different aspects of our fetishes. Some guys like blondes, others redheads, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some steaming hot brunettes out there. To each his own!

Blue

[OOAgent]

For me this is kind of a tricky issue. I like some nudity and some slight sexual stuff with the death, but not a lot. The death scene is the most important, if I don't care for it anything else dosen't matter. But if it's a death scene I like then things like stripping the body some, fondling, caressing, kissing, are added bonuses I love. But I don't really like much beyond that. If there is I usually just fastforward through it, don't care for hardcore sex at all. That's usually why i prefer women killing women vids.

Also the nudity factor, I see lots of vids with a great set up of things I like but when I check the preview images the woman is naked for nearly the whole movie. If I want to see a spy/policewoman/military girl getting killed I'd like her to look the part for more than 2 minutes. If she's not dressed the part when she's killed it's kind of pointless. After she's dead I'm fine with stripping her down, even completely in some cases as the killings over and what's left is only the killer further humiliating her/his victim and enjoying her.

That said I've seen lots of vids where the killer kills his victim and I'm just screaming in my head for the killer to just pull the top down, or open the blouse, feel her up... as s/he is killing or after killing the victim. It doesns't ruin the vid if it doensn't happen but for me it adds a lot of enjoyment.

As for sex in vids... the easiest way to explain my views on it are 'if it has it, imply it, don't show it' Like a Bond movie, we know what he's doing, but we don't actually see the actual stuff happening.

Anyway that's just my opinion on it.

[Sandi]

OK, Blue, I'll 'bite' (where and how is up to my Man ), so I'll join just to add what will be controversial for some.

Just to add a female POV that is not relevant to such videos being made and that I never claimed was relevant to that issue......and by posting this I do not indicate any desire to engage in yet another long and ultimately fruitless discussion where the same people will say the same things they always say, so please understand at the beginning that my comments ONLY relate to the majority of Female Members and not at all to the very clear right for anything legal to be made, sold, and enjoyed as people choose.

The quick summary of what I posted at DS, as the sole Female Poster, apparently to some sort of reply that was 'not acceptable' and led to a 'vacation' for a Poster (which I would address here if the Poster desires to repeat his DS comments here), is that any man who attempts to 'argue' that the sexually graphic brutality/rape/cum shots scenes do anything but drive most female members from posting in 'our little community', is deluding themselves. Do not attempt to argue the facts, please, in that regard.

So as not to repeat my exact post from DS, I'll explain further in new words, saying the very same things as posted there.

Sex sells, has since the beginning of time, and will always sell.

The market for sex videos vastly trumps the market for 'fantasy female death videos'.

Any content is fine, as JohnM points out, anything that is legal in the United States and does not contain underage actresses. As a woman, I have zero problem with men having the right to view anything legal they damn well choose to view.

Just do not, not ever, not with any deflection or excuses, attempt to claim that such videos and scenes have anything whatsoever to do with 'celebrating' the sexuality of women nor anything to do with the joys of SHARING sex, rather than TAKING it brutally in any way, shape, or form that the Man desires.

Nor let any man at this site or any other even attempt to 'tell' the women what we think as a group, or in general, about the brutal videos that clearly only 'use' women, not celebrate us. I know more women in the community than any of you do, have roleplayed with far more than any of you have, and have conversed at far greater length with far larger numbers of women for 15 years than any of you have.

Roleplays are where one finds out what truly turns Women on, and what truly turns women off. None of you have done literally the hundreds in which I engaged over the years with other Women. That's where the true inner 'self' and desires come out, and the true 'taboos' come out also, things women do not want in a role play.

Significantly decreased female site activity is a fact; the causes are many, and I only make the point here that brutal videos and inline sexually brutal and even 'explicit' imagery is not what most women come to the sites to experience and are in fact what decrease female site activity. Again, whether that matters or not is another subject matter.

Women come here to SHARE sexual feelings; there is no 'sharing' when being brutalized for the man's satisfaction only.

Is that so 'hard' to understand?

Truth in disclosure is all I ever ask of anyone. Men are allowed to express and enjoy their brutal fantasies also; that does not define them as 'brutal men'.

Proliferation of the more hard-core content has been a very large factor in the drop in female 'site activity'; that was the point I repeat here, and that has nothing to do with Producers' overall choices as to what to produce, nor does it matter nor should it matter to those who buy those videos.

For me, imagination is what fantasy is all about; if I wanted cum shots I'd take a picture of my husband or buy a video that admits it is a sex video, but that's only me.

Make what you wish and watch what you wish, just don't ever attempt to explain away that in general women detest such videos because brutality is all too real and also such videos have NOTHING to do with a woman's pleasure...nothing.

I 'get' that we do not matter in terms of the discussion as to 'what to make' or 'what is ok to show' at these sites, and I'm fine with that.

Many don't give a crap...quite obviously.....if women post or not at sites that allegedly are for sharing between the sexes.

Please understand that I have no problem with the majority doing what the majority wishes to do, whatever that is.....and no problem with each individual enjoying what they enjoy.

Just don't ever tell me it has anything to do with female pleasure nor sensual sharing when discussing 15 minutes of brutal 'taking' and 2 minutes (quite often less than 2 minutes) of alleged 'female fantasy death'.

listen this time and hear me....or not. Just as those who enjoy brutal videos don't give a crap what women think, I also don't give a crap what men who have no concern for sharing think.

all you need to know, otherwise, is the sales figures as to which 'type', among the Producers in 'our' community, has the highest number of sales. Look at those figures and then these silly discussions rather define themselves.

If you care what women think, look at the female purchase ratio for various types of clips. But the Market does not care what any 'group' thinks, but only about what sells.

It's called a free market economy. People always get hurt along the way, mostly those of some 'minority' status, but again, that is not the concern of the Market. If it's the concern of anyone else, so be it....or not. It's called Life.

Let it be, call a spade a spade, and go on with enjoying whatever you enjoy.

That is called Freedom.

Sandi

[Egeek]

I gave my views on deadskirts about this. I understand everyones views and always hope others understand mine. Im not disagreeing with anyone because you really cant when it comes to dark fantasies and what we like to see in the scene or how we write the story scene. With that said I have my tastes and views on the subject. I have always been a horror person at heart. its at the core of my imagination. ever since I was a kid and read those old scary stories like the hook. then as I matured my tastes did too. mixed with my fetish of pantyhose. I dont hate sex stuff in erotic horror scenes. But I dont always need it either. just leave the sexy body on the bed or in the car with just jer pantyhose on and tits exposed is fine by me. its stimulating without the need of cum shots. Others like those extra elements in the scene. thats cool. I think I left the story on here where I wrote a fan fic story ending for the original halloween part 2 where michael myers left the nurses bodies in a room in sexual poses. left nude or just in hose. legs spread with death stares. thats erotic horror for me. beauty left exposed in a horror type of way. others may like it just like that or want more details. thats cool to. Im not going to disagree. for basic erotic stimulation I look at pin up girl pics or a playboy mag. softcore porn basically. we all have our tastes. I try my best to respect each others views. I chat witha member who is a female. she is cool. She respects my tastes and views on horror and I respect hers. her likes and dislikes. I know she dont really go into horror and I respect that and she respects that I like like horror more in my scenes.

[DaleCar]

I'm on the edges of this. In that I like the idea of death and sex, But I'm not particularly into the Necro end of it. And by that. I mean dead women seldom excite me. I like combat, adventure, and porn with a death element. Sex can come before with the winner or the looser or after with the winner of a fight. And can be consensual or not. For me. The sexy one is the winner of a fight standing joyfully over her slain enemy, or a variation on that theme. And she's horny as hell because of her victory.

I will allow that a certain amount of body play right after death I find interesting in certain circumstances. While the kill is fresh and warm.

One thing I don't care about in death fetish porn. I really don't need to see cum all over the place. I don't really care for the money shot in mainstream porn either for that matter. A good actor or actress can convince me theres sex going on without having it splattered all over the place.

Dale

[Egeek]

erotic horror will have some sort of sexual elements in it even with no penetration of the cock going into the vagina or cum shots. pantyhose on the womens legs is enough for me. or hr feet rubbed on a hit womans crotch area because the hit woman has a feet and pantyhose fetish herself. thats erotic horror to me. I wrote about this hit woman that did just that. a hit woman character who would splatter the blood of a sexy women over the wall. afterwards show appreciation to the womens feet by rubbing the dead womens feet on her crotch area. leave the legs spread and nude. before leaving saying i hope your husband appreciate your brains and body. horror elements with erotic elements. My own taste level. then like I said I like the basic fun 80s slasher stuff with no erotic elements attached. just the fetishes seen here and there. As I write I try to stay true to my tastes. More and more. As I share my views and stories I run into others on these sites that have similar tastes and views. but I guess xxporn and death fetishes will always be debated too and at a positive level is fun to talk about. share thoughts. Not worrying if you are going to be suspended doesnt help though. But thats a whole another thing.

[Pennpaul]

I do find the responses very interesting. But when compared to sales, something doesn't get translated. 75% of Horror Variety Theater is non-sexual death fetish. However, sales records do not seem to reflect the opinions expressed. Perhaps the speaking members tend to be exclusive Silk Video participants??

At present ARTHUR's SHOOTING SCHEMES part One, reflect the significant interest in simple shooting scenes in quantity. Part one offers 29 scenes of shooting deaths. Perhaps this is what members are describing??

4P

[Bluestone]

exclusive Silk Video participants??

I wasn't aware that I'd cornered the market. I'm sure that JohnM doesn't buy from me exclusively!

Blue

[Sandi]

Vague references do not aid discussions, Pennpaul....lol....and only raise more questions in a Reader's mind as to 'what does he mean?' or 'to which Poster(s) is he referring?'

If none of your comments were directed to my post at either site, fine...lol. If they are directed at my remarks in any way, please just be specific about where we might disagree. At DS, it was 'said' that my post was 'heckled', so naturally I am curious as to what you might have posted that led someone to that conclusion.

Not looking for an argument here at all, just asking to directly specify the comments and opinions with which you agree, and clearly and respectfully stating where you disagree. Otherwise, a response of any relevance cannot be made; of course, you may not desire a response, either but one cannot know from the vague nature of your comments.

Are you saying 'more brutal' videos do not outsell more 'tame' ones? Or the opposite? I just don't know what you meant...lol.

Nor am I in any 'exclusive' loyalty to just one Producer, btw, and happen to own material from many Producers who advertise at 'our' sites.

Mainly, to clarify, both of my posts were only centered on the fact of heavily decreased female activity at both sites and one thing that most definitely has been at least a partial cause for that.

I note that at FN, it is now a one-woman show, as Kelli has chosen to stay away herself for a month or more; some of the reasons for that, which the people at FN seem to not understand or certainly not really care about, is because of the explicit sexual imagery and dripping cum shots and male penis images and as many pictures of men being shot as women that are permitted there.

There are 2 women who participate in the sexually graphic threads; the rest basically do not post to such supposedly 'interactive' stories because that is not what most of us wish to share in that manner.

So other than the majority female POV, I have nothing to say about brutality videos; maybe I just assumed men could or would understand that many of the 'more tame' fantasy depictions are far, far different than direct rape and 'using the woman' in all orifices videos are. Rape and 'using the woman's body for nothing but the male satisfaction' is far more offensive to most of us because it represents the real violence every woman, in some way, fears or is aware can happen at any time at any day of her life. Said another way, they are simply too real for most women to enjoy, too directly obvious in terms of violence from brutal men who only care about their own satisfaction.

Peace out, unless you have something specific to address to what I've said.

Sandi

[Pennpaul]

Mea Culpa

My apologies, Sandi. My comments were in general reference to the several members expressing their preferences. As a producer, my comment stated that I had not seen these opinions translated into sales. Perhaps Bluestone can qualify support for Silk Videos.

And Bluestone I am unsure to what your JohnM comments accrue. JohnM is a triple XXX producer of popular acclaim.

4P