Production Values and Acting in Community Productions!

[Bluestone]

Hey All,

I've been contributing to a thread at DS that was started by a customer who was disappointed with the quality of some unidentified productions by an unidentified community producer. On FF, customers are free to post a positive or negative review of any production on our Candid Video and Movie Reviews forum. The general nature of the discussions at DS brought out some interesting comments and contributions, but it would have been nice to know what the initial poster was complaining about with specifics. I have to assume that he was complaining about some marginal Nicheclips producers, and there are loads of them, who are just in it for a buck, and not any of the fine producers who showcase their work here, and are very open to customer feedback and serious about customer satisfaction.

The topic itself, however, is certainly worthy of contributions here. Have you purchased videos that you feel are a waste of your money? Over the years, I have certainly seen some real stinkers. Of course, everyone is different as to what floats your boat, but have you found that there are production companies out there who just produce substandard productions that you feel are inaccurately described or not worth the price that you paid? Do you feel that our community productions are improving, or that the market is getting flooded with producers who don't have the fetish and just want to cash in on the market with cheap productions? Please vote, but also let us know your thoughts, positive or negative, on this subject. You are free to name names, because this is indeed a free speech board. For example, if you think one of my productions sucks, let everyone know about it. State the title and what you don't like about it. Post a review, if you like. No, I won't ban you, if you do any or all of those things, as long as you keep it civil. I can't speak for the other producers here, but I as a producer crave feedback, positive and negative, and have a thick enough skin to weather criticism.

On another note, in order to help others to find the good productions, please nominate 4th quarter 2011 Snuffies as well as 2011 Best Producer, Actress, etc in the Snuffie Awards sub-forum. From the lack of recent nominations there, it tells me that there are not too many good productions and producers out there. Is that true? Is that what the lack of nominations means, or is everyone too busy with the Oscar hoopla to care? Nominations will be kept open for longer to allow further nominations. I may have to remove the categories of Best Producer and Best Actress if I don't get some nominations for these categories, which would be a shame, because there are some great ones out there!

Blue

[JohnM]

Just a quick 2 cents to add to this.

Could it be, part of the reason is boredom.

For instance, I will watch the latest new sitcom that is receiving rave reviews from the 25-35 demographic, but I am frustrated because every gag is predictable. Same with regular TV. I watch CSI an know who the killer is despite everything they do to thwart me.

In 2000--things were new--fresh, the community excited for almost anything shot in a hotel room.

As we progressed, buy late 2008-09, things, at least with bigger companies were expanding and getting bolder and more complex.

Fast forward to today, and these same companies are still doing that, but the money stopped increasing in Sept of 2008. So, despite continuing to expand and invest as they can, plus new movie making and editing techniques, it seems like, it is all old hat to the customer that as seen it all.

And, other then setting up a studio on the moon, there is not much that can be done but wait for the new, wide-eyed person who does not have 1500 movies on their HD and is ready to see these movies for the first time with fresh eyes. I get emails like this daily, "OMG, I cannot believe I found you. This is awesome. I did not know these movies existed. Can I send you an MO"

This is what I do. As a fetishist. I go back and look and really, really look. I find a lot of what I did not like, I now like.

So, if the poll is for newer people that perhaps has seen the old, tripod in a hotel room stuff, then I suspect things with multiple sets, case, great effects, snappy editing and things that cannot be seen anywhere in a hollywood movie look great and is definite progress.

But, to the "old timer" and I am one of them, regardless of how much money was spent, or where it was shot, I already know the beginning, middle and end, and it bores me.

Maybe that is the issue. Way to much stuff. Way to many choices. And, we all know the ending.

JohnM

P.S. Not picking on shooting in hotel rooms, just using it for narrative. Hotel room are a great set!

[Nightposter]

A quick reply...
some producers, who started out with great ideas, interesting actors and actresses, and real plots in their videos, have settled into a formula for almost all their productions...
small stable of actresses, and basically...
grab them
choke or cloth them out
strip them
sex
wake up during said sex
kill them, usually strangulation
finish sex
drag the body away during the fade out....
at no point during this is there any real resistance from the actress, and she's NOT restrained in any way.

One of my artwork fans bought me several downloads from the clip sites ( all he could find featuring uniforms...a surprisingly small number) and some he thought I'd like
( trying to help me get my "muse" back into drawing mode)
and the above is the formula I saw ( when the girls didn't start out naked)
Hand held camera, that couldn't keep still, so some of the action was missed as the operator was zoomed in way too close... just...well ho hum.

[Pennpaul]

While this poll is a great idea, unfortunately it fails to acknowledge the rather limited base that accrues to the FF group. Other than the top 4 producers (all hardcord) and Silk Videos, very few other producers are even mentioned let alone reviewed. This may be a factor that pertains to JohnM's observations.

In addition, no producer is allowed to review his or any other producer's work. The diatribe of several years ago not withstanding, that ruling is one of the set backs from validation of this poll and related awards recommendations. Also, no producer has recommended any of their own actresses.

Other than the entertainment value of hostile verbal jousts, not much seems to inspire posting. Of note is the many contributions by JAFA, though not so much fetish oriented

My 4 cents and opinion.

4P

[Max5s]

I have been doing my best to ignore the forums, but rumors of this topic have drawn me out of hibernation.

I would have to say that I agree with JohnM in the sense that a lot of what I see is a bit boring to me. I don’t think it is necessarily bad work, but it doesn’t inspire me enough to purchase much. On a few occasions I have seen some material I would have purchased if the actress(es) had been different.

Three people give me regular feedback, and for the most part, they are the ones I pay attention to. If they make a request, I try to honor it. If they offer criticism, I know they are being honest and that I should think carefully about what they say.

Penn also makes a very good point. Not much here inspires much posting. Few ask questions about what the producers are offering, and I tend to wonder if very many even care unless the product is free. Obviously there is a group that speaks with their wallets, but they seem to be the quiet sort. There is also a contingent I’ll call the sycophants. They tend to be uncritical groupies that are latched on tightly to a particular producer or two and tend to over post to the point of nausea.

Regardless, the community is what it is. It’s changed a lot and will probably change more. Those of us that have been in it from the start or near the start have adapted and persisted. Others came and went. Over the years I’ve put out several hundred scripts. I think I have a few more left. I have certainly found a group of people that I really love working with, so I really don’t need much else.

[JohnM]

There is also a contingent I’ll call the sycophants. They tend to be uncritical groupies that are latched on tightly to a particular producer or two and tend to over post to the point of nausea.

Kinda like having a minstrel. :-)


Bravely bold Sir Robin
Rode forth from Camelot.
He was not afraid to die,
Oh brave Sir Robin.
He was not at all afraid
To be killed in nasty ways.
Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir Robin.

He was not in the least bit scared
To be mashed into a pulp.
Or to have his eyes gouged out,
And his elbows broken.
To have his kneecaps split
And his body burned away,
And his limbs all hacked and mangled
Brave Sir Robin.

His head smashed in
And his heart cut out
And his liver removed
And his bowls unplugged
And his nostrils raped
And his bottom burnt off
And his pen--

"That's... that's enough music for now lads,
*** there's dirty work afoot*** ???."

Brave Sir Robin ran away.
("No!")
Bravely ran away away.
("I didn't!")
When danger reared it's ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled.
("no!")
Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about
("I didn't!")
And gallantly he chickened out.
****Bravely**** taking ("I never did!") to his feet,
He beat a very brave retreat.
("all lies!")
Bravest of the braaaave, Sir Robin!
("I never!")


JohnM

[Max5s]

Yes. I saw that movie, too. That was one of my favorite scenes.

[gold]

Enjoy the newer productions and the quality of the models. Two people looked out through bars one saw mud the other Stars. We do have Stars sharing their work with us. Positive feedback shows appreciation.... Compliments to all that produce and act in these productions.Totally agree put up your funds to help all and realize its a costly process.

[ochorioscowboy]

Hi all. I'm the one that posted on the DS board about a lack of production values. What prompted me to post is that I see all the studios on NC and PAP, and while some do offer the occasional fresh idea, how many times can you do the same scenario over and over again with the same premise, just a different model wearing a different colored dress? That, coupled with the fact that the market is so over-saturated with just mediocre product showing basically the same story, but told by 20 different studios? The consumers(myself included) are guilty too, as we are the ones buying it, so that basically gives the producers a green light to keep pumping this stuff out. There was a studio a few years back by the name of GruntFilm. They did some top notch quality clips, but sadly, they closed before I could acquire all the clips I wanted. I'm not saying we should all go out and rip off Gruntfilm, but just see some of the stuff they came up with. Use it as a template. Try different angles and setups.

Lack of a story is also what bothers me. Just a simple 1 minute intro on whats going on, and why they are being killed would work wonders. Otherwise, its just like an assembly line. Also for me personally, its not the death that does it for me, but the dying; the impending doom. I never liked overdrawn death stares and body pans. Anything more than 2 minutes is excessive. And unlike some folk who just go yammering on and on about how the industry needs change, and does nothing, I'm opening my own production company/studio, and with around 50 different stories to offer with very little variants, I will offer content not really touched on. I'm also looking for talent right now, and possibly a bigger studio to collaborate with. I'd be lying if I said I dont want to make a little money, but the prime focus is to breathe new life in what I believe to be a stagnant genre.

[Bluestone]

ochorioscowboy,

Thanks for bringing your views to our attention. I tend to agree with you that the market seems to be saturated with loads of production companies doing the same thing; however, Niche and P.A.P. are not the only places to find content. There are a lot of fine producers who have sites independent of those video malls, and who only use them as a secondary market. In my case, I don't have a store at P.A.P. and do not post all of my material on my Niche store, and in fact had posted nothing there for the last 4 months of 2011. It appears to me that a lot of the producers who advertise here are trying to keep it fresh. As for storylines, almost all of my videos have quite complex storylines as well as varied ones, such as "Mexican Standoff", "A Vampire's Tale", "Prostitute Protective Society", "White Angel", "The Saga of the Rogue Agent", and "Pandora's Revenge" to name only a few. It's easy to tell whether there is a storyline. The acid test is for a producer to mentally re-edit their film by shortening the death scene to Hollywood lengths, removing the post-mortem pans, and see what's left. If there's still a video worth watching, there is a real storyline. If not, all you have is an extended death scene and a lot of body pans. When I do that with all of the videos that I've listed above, there is still a watchable video left, albeit a much shorter one. I'm sure that's the same with some of the other quality producers here, but I can only speak for myself.

Blue

[Max5s]

Lack of a story is also what bothers me.

I guess you never viewed any videos by PKF Studios, Bluestone, AnnsDreams, Susy's, HankS or Pennpaul to name a few. They generally go to great lengths to create plots for their material.

I'm opening my own production company/studio, and with around 50 different stories to offer with very little variants, I will offer content not really touched on.

Knock yourself out. The peril concept has been done many times over, and some of the producers have been quite successful. But don't be surprised if you end up hearing some of the same criticisms you offer, especially if you put out 50 stories with "very little variants".

Granted, there are still many ways producers can improve their products, and most are open to constructive suggestions. But I'm sure many will tell you that people say one thing with their mouths and another with their pocketbook.

[ochorioscowboy]

I guess you never viewed any videos by PKF Studios, Bluestone, AnnsDreams, Susy's, HankS or Pennpaul to name a few. They generally go to great lengths to create plots for their material.



Knock yourself out. The peril concept has been done many times over, and some of the producers have been quite successful. But don't be surprised if you end up hearing some of the same criticisms you offer, especially if you put out 50 stories with "very little variants".

Granted, there are still many ways producers can improve their products, and most are open to constructive suggestions. But I'm sure many will tell you that people say one thing with their mouths and another with their pocketbook.

Actually I have viewed those mentioned. The beautiful thing about opinions is that we are all entitled to them. I personally don't share your opinion. 50 stories with "very little variants" means that there are 50 separate, original stories with only a few of them being similar. If you know of peril sites and boards that don't offer gory death, then by all means, point me in that direction. Thank you for your comments.

[mikedark]

Misleading pole. The question is not rather or not things have improved. They have considerably. Producers have learned to spot the talent in their stable and cultivate them, while culling out the ones that really can't act at all, the actresses have gotten quite good at realistically portraying the act of dying itself, the film quality is much improved, the dialogue is getting there finally. The question is rather or not there's still significant room for more improvement, and I say yes, of course there is!

[Bluestone]

Yes, Mikedark, I agree that there is loads of room for improvement, but I also agree that we've come a long way. I remember the small mpegs, the stilted dialogue, the average-looking girls, the static framed tripod videos... very amateurish stuff. Now, at least we producers have started to produce material that we can be proud of... but we should constantly be challenged by the consumers and by each other to continue to improve. Once we stop evolving, we become extinct!

Blue

[WAVE]

I thought I'd respond to this thread. I'm not sure how, as a producer, I can improve my product to meet the customers' desires when I get almost no feedback at all. I recently posted asking for negative feedback on WAVE movies and got exactly one response on this board! I did get few eslewhere.

You can't get what you want unless you say what it is you do want. The person who started this thread mentioned lack of storylines and plots. That's not an issue with WAVE movies because they all have some sort of plot or specific storyline.

That's why basically I do the movies the way I want to and if someone likes it, they can buy it. If not, they don't. And since I've been doing this since 1987, I must be doing something right.

Gary