Does anyone REALLY know where the fetish comes from?

[Bluestone]

I know that there is a member of our community who has even done her thesis on the erotic death fetish, but I don't think anyone really knows what causes it, do they?

I've always favoured the imprinting theory, that watching TV shows and movies, at puberty or before, containing violence to women (a taboo in my day of not hitting girls) re-wired me to get sexually aroused from impacting a desirable woman with violence, whether it be phallic weapons or strangulation to force a breathless gasp from a woman's lips. So, I favour that explanation, but many people in this community disagree. Some say that we were born this way. If we were, I think it's because everyone has this latent inclination. I mean, everyone seems to be attracted to a sexy girl being in danger. Some may be hoping that she survives, but how many people secretly want to see her 'impacted', but will never voice these thoughts for fear of being treated as a dangerous freak? What if most people had these thoughts but repressed them. Are we in the minority when it comes to these feelings, or simply the vocal minority with respect to a widespread interest that sends both male and female teens in droves to slasher films and the like?

What does everyone else think?

Blue

[LadyAsh]

My short reply is, no, no one knows what causes it. Although I doubt there is only one reason. And I rather think that men have different reasons for imaging women getting killed to the reasons women imagine getting killed.

[cmpunkfan16]

No I dont think anyone knows were exactly it comes from. Like Blue just said,everyone has a different opinion of were their fetish came from. I guess the people that have the fetish understand and the ones that dont think we are all mentally ill.

[Steph]

I blame the martians.

[Sandi]

From the basic sex drive of all human beings, our stimuli merely being representative to us of what other stimuli are to Others.

No more, no less. In 99.9999999999% of the cases, the reason each individual is stimulated by certain different things is utterly immaterial.

Doesn't matter, stop looking for reasons deep in the psyche. If it feels good, do it. Don't think, it only gets in the way of good sex. Those who disagree and worry about it, you're not having enough good sex! Don't worry, be HAPPY!



(though 'Uncle Martin' had an 'interesting' two looooong appendages sticking out of HIS head, so maybe Steph is 'on to something' about the Martians )

Simple, Concise Sandi

[xj900uk]

Don't worry, be HAPPY!

You don't by any chance come from Jamaica, do you Sandi???

[indrico]

I think some women like to play victim in the same way as some men like to play predator. In my own case it was unsuccessful nursing (don't ask) that triggered my life-long (at least as of age 4-5) obsession with breasts full of bullets.

[JohnM]

Sometime while I was less then 10, I remember looking though my grandpas' playboys. In addition he always had various true crime magazines. I remember playing cops and robbers a lot with a neighbor girl.

I remember sometimes, one of the ways I would fall asleep was to fantasize that there was playground shooting game in which everyone was naked. I am pretty sure this was in middle school. When they were hit, they would play dead. I would fantasized about playing dead or running around watching other people play dead. It could be that they were not playing--but I don't remember blood or anything. It was a long long time ago.

Later, when I was in my early 20's, I remember making clip tapes. The tapes would have death scenes with girls as well as any nude scene in general.

When I was around 26 or so, I stumbled across Necrobabes and was very, very excited by what I found.

Year later, upon looking back at the pattern, I decided I must have had the fetish for a while.

There was a time, I thought that I developed the fetish because of producing content.

I think I gravitated and stated with producing content, because I have the fetish. I think I would have quit years ago had things been different with me.

JohnM

[mikedark]

My short reply is, no, no one knows what causes it. Although I doubt there is only one reason. And I rather think that men have different reasons for imaging women getting killed to the reasons women imagine getting killed.

I'm sure we do. I can't exactly pinpoint where my fantasy comes from. I've always had a violent streak (which isn't a problem anymore, so don't worry girls!), and it seemed like at puberty a lot of things came together that just turned it into a fetish. One was playing Resident Evil 2, which had a lot of female character death if you played badly, then there was a scene in Pokemon where Misty got knocked out cold, then there was things like Mary Jane in peril in the Spider-Man cartoon, Sailor Moon, and the lovely Vietnamese girl getting blown away in First Blood, pt. 2

[Sandi]

You got my short answer before....LOL....

now 'comes' one Man's and one Woman's introductions to these fantasies and what each feels about hard-wiring and such.

And I'll repeat the story of how my male friend who introduced me to these fantasies when I was 26 and he was 46, got into it. I don't see any 'hard-wiring' in his attractions to it from what I know, but maybe someone else does....nor do I with my own, so I say all of that 'up front'. Here is 'his story' and then my own, connected because he introduced ME to the fantasies....lol.....or in some off-handed way, I 'forced him' to do that......LOL! Having NO clue where he would go.....but I surmised correctly.....cuz I'm still here.

He's 64. He played 'cowboys' and 'war' and 'guns' as a boy, for that's what boys in the mid 1950s played as John Wayne and American military heroes dominated the movies. America was the Land of Heroes, and boys had no Internet, and only had board games, sports, and their imaginations.

Girls played 'Barbies' in a pretend world...or 'dress-up'. Doing nothing but 'pretending to be someone else'....just like an actress does. Glamourous (as depicted by media) women, popular women.....and young girls internalize 'nice dresses' and slits and accessories and jewelry and all of that, so THEY wear those things when they 'played' with imaginative games.

Boys went out with their cap guns or water pistols or sticks they picked up that looked like the shape of a gun, and they 'went after each other'....'hiding' behind trees (that were usually far thinner than the boy....some 'cover' that was!) and going 'BLAM' or firing a cap when another one appeared to be 'in the open'.

Much of the fun, he said, was (VOILA!) GETTING shot...and these were boys of 6-7-8-9 years old, it was not 'sexual'. But it was related to 'winning and losing' as they had seen in Westerns and war movies on their black and white TVs.

No blood, no gore...just doing the old Grab, Clutch, and Fall routine and role.....holding their belly sounded like what 'most' did when 'shot'.....and then they'd fall, or slide down a tree, just to emote it for the sake of the Game.

Mostly, he said, they'd then jump RIGHT back up again and yell "NEW MAN!"....and be right back in the 'play'.....LOL! Great game, I love it!

But I wasn't into that then, and he said they never found a girl would 'be shot'......so no girls played.


One day, and he forgets whether it was 8 or 9 years old, he was playing by himself, in his only-child bedroom....and pretending to play against a good friend with whom he played the 'cowboys' games, but was also very competitive with in school and in sports and stuff....'just a little better' than his friend in those areas, but 'well behind' in other areas....like with the girls....lol.

So since the FUN when they played was in BEING shot....he pretended to be shot by his friend....happened to be wearing only white underwear bottom, nothing else. Grabs his bare belly, 'falls' to the 'western street' (bedroom floor...same thing....lol) and sees his gun a few feet away that flew from his hands.......so he continues to 'play the role' that he feels.....and as his body STRAINED to pull itself forward, on his belly, while holding his bare belly.....he became 'hard' sexually for the first time in his life.

And had NO clue WHATsoever what was happening nor that it even WAS 'sex'! OH, y'all should here this man describe that 'time'...it's a riot how 'unaware' we can be....lol.

So his hardnes increased, the closer he got to his gun, which he was determined to be able to pick up and shoot his adversary. ALL the emotion was in there with the competition of it,he said, so that was a major 'feeling' associated with his first orgasm.

He experienced a 'growing' and yet somewhat disquieting feeling the closer he got physically and emotionally in his 'crawl' to the gun. He was getting HARDER....and 'approaching some sort of climactic moment', yet it was eerie, too, because he had no idea that 'sex' was involved or anything else!

And yes, JUST as he reached and grabbed the gun, and raised UP from the waist while grinding down HARDEST with his c..k through the underwear into the carpet....at his peak of raising himself, his belly was now 'exposed again though he was still holding it....and he imagined that his adversary fired again, right into his belly.

JUST at the very moment the REST of him climaxed also! "down there'.....so he kept grinding into the carpet and extended the 'dying'......well no wonder, it felt great......and then when that feeling passed, he said it just felt natural, drained as he was bothways, to slump....as in the movies. He had no death thoughts any more than I ever have.

And I'm sure it's obvious how much MY first 'thoughts' and orientations 'come' from his...we spent a few months sort of 'together'.....a great Mentor for me that I really needed to appear at that point of my Life......that very 27 mile hike I was on in Yosemite represented EVERYTHING to me at that point of my Life.....after a year in a wheelchair and all the pain of the next rehabs for another 2 yers.....I was THERE....at the moment I met him....I was near the END of that Hike....

I had DONE IT....defied odds and doctors and all....point is, I felt GREAT about myself at that moment, so I was confident and happy and 'open'.....and his Wisdom over those months were the Final Mentor I 'needed' to.....become Myself. And to throw out forever any negative thoughts from those 'difficult' years and always be able to look back with smiles at to how damn much I learned and how the whole experience was the catalyst to me entering the 'real' Adulthood'.....lol.

yes, it all meant that much to me then, which is why I emote so strongly...and with so many words....this 'stuff' changed my Life...and in different ways, gave me confidence on some levels 'new' to me.



So HIS first orgasm was on the floor, totally 'dry', through the underwear.....as he LOST at the peak moment of competition at which he thought he was about to win.

Well, no freakin' WONDER I have the same 'orientations', in ways, because right away I saw HIS, understood them.....my first "DS" talk with a man........lol.

And it just made all so much 'sense', even.

He had no thoughts of girls. Even during or after the experience. But for SURE he repeated the experience! And being an only child with a closed door every night, he did what only children do, and built a small world of his own 'in there'.....to which he later added women when some of the black and white film noir movies of the time 'hit him'.....and it was just like in the boys' games......a finish with a bullet to the belly......except that when he watched Stanwyck or those of that era, he found something 'attractive' about the poses, the emotions.
It was not violence, it was not death, to him......but it became his first internalization of 'sex', in a way.

And today, at 64, he still enjoys that private world.....as I have come to do also for myself.

But my intro was so much later in life, at 26, that I just do not see any connection to any 'hard-wiring'. Maybe to my cultural or life experiences-background, SURE! As with him, Wayne and the Soldiers and 'good Cowboys' were the macho heroes so that played in to the boys' copying the PERFORMANCES of their 'heroes'....in winning and in losing. And simply found they got to 'do more' when they LOST.......LOL!

He and I have discussed this 'often' over the years; maybe we're both right, maybe both wrong, maybe one is right about themself and the other one one wrong about themself.......but neither of us (nor my husband, whom I introduced to the fantasies when he was in his early 30s) think there is any 'hard-wiring' involved for us personally.

But we also believe that absolutely there are hard-wiring reasons for 'some', on some levels.

That's the take from my side of the bullet....the one that takes the shots......the only 'hard-wiring' I have, in my opinion, is that I enjoy being a woman sexually and I enjoy being penetrated and this is nothing but a very strong penetration sexual imagery for me. Nothing to do with 'death' or violence whatsoever....it's all purely a sexual metaphor that I find erotic in many forms.....and truly, other than always knowing I can be 'more free' with sex and all those emotions and releases, beyond loving where the metaphors take me sexually and erotically is all I ever think about.

No guilts, no belief that I am hard-wired in any way in those directions.

ah, but MY beginnings...in far shorter form.......

I'll give it to you again as simply as I experienced it, and as 'deeply' as I worry about it,which is not at all.....lol.....

I saw a Man (same man mentioned above) in the woods by a stream.....he had two cap guns.....he looked up and was embarassed.....he was wearing only cut-off shorts....I was wearing cut-offs and a halter.....we were alone in the woods at 6:30 AM, in Yosemite and a place I felt totally safe.........

I broke the awkwardness by smiling and asking sweetly "Am I interrupting anything?". (and if you knew ME before that, you were looking at the former pimple-face who was always in the corner at dances in the years before ...though now I was 26 and with no acne and suddenly very popular, so this was the first time I had EVER approached a man in this confident, if you will, or gutsy, fashion.....I wanted to help HIM at 'that moment'....lol...and I firmly believe the 'succes' of that moment helped give me the confidence to do the things I do 'today' and to approach people openly and honestly in the offline world also It was a 'defining' moment for me, though I had no clue of that then and my only purpose was to diffuse his embarassment, because he just.....'looked like a nice guy').


and within an hour, I had played my first 'death scene, a cap gun shootout where we both got each other. No sex, then or later....only once ever, actually, with him.....on top of Sentinel Dome in Yosemite, but that is another Chapter....lol....but same story, because my fantasies wre born that morning.

I had NEVER 'approached' someone like that, never! "Something" just said 'do it, he's fine, he's so damn embarssed you'll both end up laughing about it, whatever it is"........

truly, that's what I remember 'processing' in my brain at those first moments....I wanted to HELP this nice-guy out of HIS embarassment.....never DREAMING there was anything sexual about it..........I approached him......he told me of his fantasy play and what it represented to him.....then we played......I was conquered.....something like that, Mr. Caesar....

AH, yes, I've got it now, even though THEY got it backwards about ole pervert Julius...


I saw....I was conquered.....I came.

Nothing more than that, for me.....and I wanted to give you one Man's initiation also that I know about. Beyond us plus my husband, all I know is from what I read from the rest of you here as to how you each feel about such things.

Sandi

[Algenon5]

I know that there is a member of our community who has even done her thesis on the erotic death fetish, but I don't think anyone really knows what causes it, do they?
Blue

Wait, I'll put on my aluminum foil psychoanalyst hat…

Nope.

Honest Al

[Algenon5]

I blame the martians.

Thanks be for Martians!!

[tummyshooter]

Yes, I know EXACTLY where it comes from. It comes from our original brain hard-wiring plus some dna sequencing....or something equally fundamental. I do not believe it comes from a particular scene in a film or something like that because lots of people saw it too and are totally unaffected.

Another reason is if a past experiences were mainly responsible for starting a fetish, then I should be the worlds most enthusiastic foot/stiletto heel fetishest, because of several occurances that happened when I was about 8-10. They were fun and remembered fondly but, feet---no big deal. And I don't like high heels - not good for the feet, ankles or back.

That's my theory anyway.

[s8bv3rsiv3]

The need for sex and the propensity for violence are every bit as instinctive as the need to eat and breathe. Both are necessary for survival. As to why some people seem to enjoy them together is anyone's guess. Then again, people often mix seemingly unrelated things like pickles and ice cream, or sex and love. I've always had doubts about the media's influence on violent behavior. (or any other type of behavior for that matter.) I tend to agree with David Byrne's observation that violence on television only affects children whose parents act like tv stars. Every rational person understands the difference between fantasy and reality. And everyone has the desire to kill...usually when someone cuts you off in traffic. The thing that keeps every sane person from acting on these desires is empathy. Paradoxially, I would argue that empathy is the thing that makes this fetish so wonderful...after all, whether you put yourself in the victim or killers shoes, or act as an outside observer, there is no thrill if you can't identify with the players.

[hardluck8]

You are not going to find any one reason or source that covers everyone. In most cases, when we were very young we saw some imagery of violence towards women that traumatized us. In order to be able to deal with the imagery as we matured we attached the feeling of sexual satisfaction.