Sex, Death, and Philosophy

[LTerry]

All,

My apologies for cross-posting this on the other board. I started the topic there, but I know that many of the more intellectually curious amongst you are on this board.

Here's an interesting quotation from Jean-Luc Nancy from his work "Corpus":

"'Partes extra partes': here, what is impenetrable is not the massive thickness of the 'pars', but the displacement of the 'extra.' A body only ever 'penetrates' the opening of another body when killing it (which is why the sexual lexicon is completely meager, a lexicon of nothing less than murder and death...)"

Nancy seems to be saying that bodies articulate space, both internally and externally, and that the only way you can make a body cease to articulate space (or be articulated by it) is to destroy it through death. Penetrative sex doesn't really penetrate the articulated body of the space, nor does it displace it. As a result, the sexual lexicon is full of metaphors of death, such as the French 'la petit mort.' Sex doesn't want to be merely sex, it wants to be death, and to have the power of displacing bodies. Since it doesn't, it can merely articulate the metaphors of death.

Interesting? I think so. I'd be interested in hearing what others think of the themes of death and sex in philosophy and literature. The braver amongst you might want to look at the book "Over her Dead Body" by Elisabeth Bronfen, though you might first want to brush up on your Freud, Lacan, and Derrida. Where else have these themes come up in philosophy? Obviously Freud, Lacan, and Georges Bataille come to mind, but perhaps members here have come across other interesting references.

LT

[TommyBailey]

What about Soren Kierkegaard and his Levelling philosophy?

I attended a lecture once that kind of stretched past anything Kierkegaard ever stated, but the lecturer made sense, at least in a warped way.

Even if we are torn down to nothing and there is nothing really meaningful in our lives, the one thing that will give someone meaning is reproducing, since we are genetically designed to do so.

Therefore women always have that one meaningful thing, which must be accomplished through sex, which must be accomplished by arousing a male.

So the short of it, according to him, was no matter how meaningless a woman's life may be (to her, as in depressed, not that *I'M* saying it), she will always have something meaningful she can do, if she desires. If not, then she might as well be dead, as there really is nothing else meaningful that can happen in life.

It was weird. Maybe not even close to applicable to what you're talking about, but your post made me think of it.

[Bluestone]

A very interesting topic, but I haven't read the authors referred to above, and so the following are only my own philosophical thoughts on the intertwined subject of sex and death. Hopefully, they will be of use to others here, or at the very least, encourage others to contribute their own thoughts to LT's very interesting premise.

Firstly, we are not a cross-section of mainstream society here with respect to our thoughts about sex and death. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because I feel that it very specially equips us to discuss the connection between these two issues as well as the obvious metaphors involved, as opposed to those who see death as only the negative end of all.

Sex and violence are naturally intertwined in our minds, and whatever its origin, it is clear to this writer that there is an obvious connection between the two. Innocent children who walk in on their parents having sex draw the immediate conclusion that they are being violent to one another. What the producers in this industry try to achieve during a woman's fantasized death scene are orgasmic reactions. Phallic weapons are used to evoke this response. Orgasm, 'la petit mort', whatever you want to call it, is the theme, or climax, if you will, of our erotic death fetish videos. Penetration is what men desire when they are intent on sexually conquering a desirable woman. Penetration by fantasy violence is a way of conquering any fantasy woman on the planet who they are unable to bed in the real world. Strangulation is a way to force that same fantasy woman to breathe and writhe in your embrace as if you were engaging in a sexual act as opposed to a killing act.

Now, we all know how our minds put sex and violence together in the above circumstances, but what about those without the death fetish? How can they possibly see a general connection between death and sex? My suggestion is that the general populace have these same latent feelings. After all, philosophers throughout the ages always seem to connect sex and death... but why? Yes, sadists can derive sexual pleasure by taking a life, and I am sure that there are homicidal maniacs who love to blow up not only women, but men and children, but what about 'normal' people? Any death cannot possibly, to my mind at least, evoke sexual excitement. An 85 year old grandfather is run over by a car. Does that excite anyone sexually? An overweight, unattractive person drops dead of a heart attack. Does that turn your crank? Carmen Electra is stabbed in the breast after running in slow motion from her killer through the sprinklers in Scary Movie. Does that do it for you? Yes, I'm sure that titilated many a male watching that scene. It was supposed to be funny and satirical of slasher movies, but Carmen was so erotic in that scene that sex was the trigger and the attack was the climax. So, if there is a sexual element introduced into the equation, I feel that our minds naturally desire a release for the sexual element that has been introduced to them. Let's say the sexual element is a desirable woman. They can:

1. Approach the woman and try to talk her into bed, conquering her and satisfying their need in the 'acceptable' fashion;
2. They can rape her, satisfying their need in that fashion;
3. They can visualize either of #1 or #2 as they masturbate over these thoughts, and in the case of aggressive behaviour, they can visualize murdering her, perhaps realizing subconsciously that they are breaking a taboo with their thoughts and would have to dispose of the victim as one would in real life.

So, my conclusion is that there is no inherent connection between sex and death. You can have death without evoking a sexual element, and you can have sex without feeling anything but mutual pleasure. Sexual arousal, however, without a 'natural' outlet to satisfy it, in my opinion, brings out the aggressive behaviour in us. We have to have it! One way or the other, we need to conquer that goddess, that bitch, that tease, and we can do it in reality or by visualization. Our aggressive thoughts in this case naturally follow us into our real life or fantasy actions. Perhaps, we just aggressively pursue the woman and end up in the sack with her, but more often than not, our thoughts visualize what we would do with her, if only we weren't so civilized

Well, anyone else care to add their two cents worth to the discussion?

Blue

[TommyBailey]

Very interesting Blue! I read that with as much interest as I do some stories. Interesting philosophy, concept.