The History of 'Our' Online Fantasies Community

[Sandi]

Per Blue, after a comment by me that I'd love to compile a History document with time-lines that shows where 'we' started online and how we got to where are now in 2010, I begin with this sketchy 'history' from the Russian Necroworld website. It lists many of the Producers and early Contributors in the 'links' area that can be found through clicking on the word 'links' partway down the Intro Page copied in here below.

Instead of following Blue's suggested thread title of 'My Contributions to this community', I thought this thread title might draw more interest and attention.

Per Blue's suggestion, I invite ANY and ALL 'Founders', he termed them, or ANY of you with ANY knowledge of how this all began and who is who and who was associated with what site and who changed names and/or site names along the way, and all of that.

He suggested that each "Founder" (and in my mind this could also be any Veteran Member of the community, also, even if not a Founder, but let's see where this goes...if anywhere....LOL) contribute a 'chapter' with what his/her role was and anything he/she knew about anyone else or who were pals, or who did this or that.

In many ways, the toughest thing is to get started, so I'll throw this random spaghetti against the wall and see if anyone can suggest a better way to start, or suggest any damn thing.....lol. I'm really only trying to serve as an Initial Impetus, and then maybe a Facilitator or Organizer of it all.

And I hereby declare that if anyone ELSE desires this role, please take it away from me, and I am 'deadly' (figured that was an appropriate way to say it...lol) serious about that. I don't really want all the work and am not at ALL sure how much work I will do after we get started...IF we get started at all!

I began with something I found myself linked to at http://www.rusnecro.com.

(EDIT: The links below do not work from this page. Sorry for causing 'work' for any interested in contributing to this idea; maybe someone can suggest a better way for me to begin to go about it all. I'm really just trying to create SOME framework for it all, so I post this for IDEAS from some of you as to how best to get to these pages!)

Those Links include such things as Black Plague. I entered the Community just as, I THINK, the Black Plague server that had hosted the early material was dropping away as the host. The article below dates that dropping away, I think, to 1998.

So anyone who knows the origins of Black Plague and the role it or the people played, please chime in.

The links include Vicki the Necrobabe, who allegedly was a Vicki Carr, though some doubt was cast on her true identity by the end of that era. I cannot speak for any accuracy or inaccuracy about that, but maybe someone can. I believe Lissa Noble 'took over' Necrobabes when Vicki...of 'Vicki'...dropped away.

I'm hoping the Veterans around here can help piece together details such as 'Who was Black Plague', what people were involved, etc.

Also in those links is Peter's original site! And therein, a link to 'sounds' women make at certain impacts.....I STILL find them erotic as I listened to most of them today for the first time in years....lol. As Peter said WAY back then at his page, they are provided so that people can use them for 'their own nefarious purposes'....LOL...which I surely internalized then and now to mean masturbation to the fantasies!

So below the Russian Necro Page, I will paste in Peter's one page on which a link can be found to those sounds.

Hopefully it's a start that SOMEONE can begin to help me to put together by filling in gaps, as to the 'who' behind each website then and even who that individual is today, if still involved.]

Many of the links originally found on the Vicki The Necrobabe link are not not free any more, somehow hosted by the Progressive Art Project as part of some paysite. I'm not even certain 'who' runs the Progressive Art Project site and took those formerly free things and now charges for them (NOT a complaint that they do that, lest my 'tone' of words be misinterpreted! I'm only trying to piece it all together, or begin to, anyway).

Yet still at that Vicki the Necrobabe link can be found 'celebrity death scene' pictures from 'back then'...sort of a beginning of vidcaps captured from mainstream movies involving actresses in mainstream films...pretty cool now, VERY cool 'then' when no such other compilation was available, that I know of, anyway.

First, the Russian Necoworld page: (if the links do not appear here, the page can be found, I THINK, at either 'rusnecro.com' or by searcing Russian Necroworld. But someone please clarify this for us! I THINK the site is http://www.rusnecro.com



As we’ve already mentioned, there are very few sources of information on necrophilia and related topics. To tell the truth, they are quite few, in comparison with other realms. That is why we decided to create a site of our own, devoted to the problem in question.

In the Internet, there are lots of different services, but we are interested in only three of them: WWW, IRC and Usenet. Let us begin with WWW. All the available information is provided by WWW-servers. Which ones? The largest site, containing nearly all necro-pages and being a kind of an accumulator of everything death-oriented, was the Black Plague server. In was there that the majority of the links led to, it was there that the largest picture archive of corpses was situated. Originally our site was there also. But such idyll couldn’t last long and, after 15 months of work in the Web, June 15, 1998, the Black Plague site ceased to be. The very domain was abolished. In was an unexpected blow for the necro-society on the whole, as it was the death of the center, the heart of the resources on this topic. But a lot of projects started at the Black Plague now remain independent in the Web. A vivid example is Necrobabes, a commercial site of Vicki – the person who stood at the roots. Who knows, maybe one day there will appear another central server, hosting all the necro-sites. After a few months of oblivion, the Black Plague creators managed to re-open their site and it is functioning now but, unfortunately, it has lost the bygone glory. A lot of sites have moved away from it. But we hope that this project will in future become what it once was. All the links on interesting necro-resources in the Web are found in the Links Collection, so you might go there and search for anything you need – by the way, we’ve given each link a profound description.

As for IRC, we’ve covered this topic very carefully in the ‘Necrophilia on IRC’ section, so we redirect you there.

And lastly; Usenet. Those who have no idea what it is, please read this. As for the rest, we strongly recommend you to subscribe to such most exciting conferences as: alt.binaries.pictures.grotesque, alt.sex.necrophilia, alt.sex.snuff.cannibalism, alt.sex.asphyx… Alt.Sex.Asphyx, as you might have guessed by its name, is devoted to asphyxia. Some time ago this conference was very active, till the people decided to move to a different place, realizing it was better to publish pictures in the ‘binaries’ conferences. So the new address is alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.fetish.neck – subscribe and enjoy. Of course, there is a great quantity of spam, as well as in the rest of the Usenet, but they have found a very good solution to this problem: all letters to the point of the conference begin with the ‘ASA’ in the Subject field. So don’t pay attention any others. The alt.binaries.pictures.grotesque conference is devoted to pictures of corpses whose deaths were caused by different accidents and neglected illnesses. It has been fairly active recently, and if you are interested – you are welcome. Other conferences are not so well-to-do: they consist of spam and very rare interesting things.

(And then, one of Peter's original pages with the sound links....if not found in this post properly, can be found by finding the Rusnecro site and clicking on 'links' from their history page and following the one to Peter's Art and Stories:



Erotic sounds of women dying with orgasm.
( To save any of these .wav files, right click over the link and select 'save link as'. )

Be aware that these are all the exact same sounds you are hearing all through my site. You won't hear anything new by clicking on these buttons. These are here in case you want to save one or more for your own nefarious purposes.

Hello.wav
Deepsigh.wav

Gunshot.wav

Navlshot.wav

Highpain.wav

Nicepain.wav

Oow.wav
Whimper.wav
Badgirl.wav

Cool.wav

Dying.wav

Highow.wav

Ow-oh.wav

Deathcry.wav
Hellothr.wav
Gasps.wav

Domebaby.wav

Goodeath.wav

Shaft.wav

Slurp.wav

Thwap!.wav
Amy.wav
Belinda.wav

Tracy.wav

Patricia.wav

Lots.wav

Killme.wav




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Instant Mail Feedback.

[bellystabs]

Thanks for kicking this off, Sandi. I am by know means one of the founders, I was just one of the many delighted finders whose quest for erotic fantasies led me to the internet in the late 90s. I am interested to hear some of the firsthand stories from our "pioneers."

Thanks again, and best wishes for your Memorial Day Speech tomorrow.

[Nyghtfall]

What follows is a time line of my history with the community.

1994 - Got married, got online. The net was in its infancy as the World Wide Web.

1995 - Found The Black Plague site while searching for topics related to fantasy asphyxia. At that time, they were serving as the host for Necrobabes.

1997 - Told my wife about my fetish when Necrobabes broke off from The Black Plague and went commercial. After a few very long talks, got her ok to join their Asphyxia site.

1999 - Started my own fetish-related hobby and began editing clips of asphyx scenes found in mainstream movies and TV shows; launched my own free-access web site to share them with the community by rotating clips every week.

2002 - Shut my site down because I couldn't afford the bandwidth.

2004 - Re-launched my site when bandwidth got cheaper.

2006 - Uploaded every clip I'd ever featured and made them available for download all at once for the first time ever. Also began dabbling in 3D modeling as part of an experiment to create original works of art related to fantasy asphyxia.

2009 - Briefly considered starting my own production company, or even just trying to put together a test shoot just to see what I could do, but 3D modeling is a much cheaper alternative to working with a live model. Completed my first - and so far only - 3D art project. I've since put 3D modeling on hold due to increasing frustration trying to find the right scenes and props to use for future projects, and a complete lack of interest in learning how to create my own. I re-focused my attention on my clip site and have kept it updated as often as I can.

2010 - Unfortunately, this year is proving especially difficult to keep my site updated due to personal issues, but I'm happy to report that there are now over 600 clips available for download, and they are all free to access for anyone who wants them.

[aimhigh]

Very interesting to see where this all began. I will be interested to see more from the forefathers of this community.

[kevin67]

This is a big undertaking and a great idea. I would suggest that you take your time with it. Let us not forget Wave productions, they are true pioneers of this genre.

[JohnM]

I will use Nyghtfall's timeline format.

1996 - Got Engaged. Discovered WAVE. Got Married.

1997 - Found Vicki the Necrobabe site, as well as Blackplague, Peter, et all. Necrobabes was launched and I contacted them about offering my services. They put me in contact with a local photographer Hank. We made some photo sets for the new site, one of our most memorable called, "The First Thanksgiving". Necrobabes named our production company Club-Dead.

1998 - Launched Ruemorgue.com to host our first Club Dead video, Roxxi's Nightmares.

1998 - Launched Cyber-Sinema, the first downloadable site for death fetish videos.

1999 - Launched Club-Dead Members site which had similar movies as Cyber-Sinema, just different partners.

2000 - 2006 Over the years, sites came and went. Club-Dead eventually changed to Ruemorgue Entertainment. Club-Dead Members eventually closed. Cyber-Sinema Eventually closed. Together Hank and I produced some 600-800 movies and shorts. I left Ruemorgue fall that year.

2006 - Launched Peachy Keen Films.

2007 - Renamed PKF Studios.

2010 - Still going strong with almost 500 released titles.

JohnM

[Peter]

The Accidental Pornographer

"So, what do you do for a living?" I get asked.

"As little as possible," is my glib answer.

"No, seriously..." after a laugh, "What do you do?"

"I'm a pornographer." I brazenly state to all sorts of interesting reactions.

I like to state things that way because if I say that I do 'erotica', everyone figures that I'm just being evasive and trying to butter up the truth. So I hit them with the worst and let them try to find wiggle room. From that first statement, if they're still interested, I'll explain a bit more detail.

I, along with a few partners, run a series of extreme fetish web sites. Each site is oriented towards a very small audience with a specific fetish, many of them, highly politically incorrect. On each of these sites we have a message board where our members post their fantasies. We create photosets (around a hundred pictures) that depict a short scene based on those fantasies, we then write text to go with those pictures and publish that as a 'photostory'. Once a week we post a new such photostory on each of our sites.

After explaining that we really only do 'R' rated photos, people start to get the idea that maybe what we do really is erotica. With us acting out stories and doing photo comics, it's hard to lump us in with the likes of Hustler.

"It's all an accident actually. I never intentionally set out to become a pornographer." I continue with a twinkle and a wink.

"How do you become a pornographer by accident?" They ask. I smile. I like telling this story.

Back in 1994, I made a lot of money speculating in trading cards, sufficient money that I could contemplate taking a year off. I had always felt that I could be a good writer and had a few novels in me. So I quit my day job intending to try my hand at writing.

The first day of my sabbatical, I sat down in front of my computer, hovered my hands over the keyboard and waited for that novel to happen. It didn't. Nothing happened.

The second day, again, nothing happened.

On the third day, I realized I was making a mistake. (I can be a bit dense.) It dawned on me that I really had no idea how to start writing a novel. I figured that what I really needed to do was write a short story. Start small and work up to a novel. Confident in my new found wisdom, I held my fingers above the keyboard and again, nothing happened.

It wasn't really till the fourth day that I truly started to get a clue. What I needed to do was not so much write a novel or short story, it wasn't even a question of writing really, it was more simply that I needed to start typing. I needed to see words appear on the screen, it didn't even matter what the words were. I needed to do stream of consciousness writing just as an exercise. Just start typing and let the words flow.

So of course I started writing a masturbatory fantasy. I mean it was just an exercise, right? Nobody was ever going to read this, and it's not like I had to worry about plot, motive or characterization or anything. It was just the easiest thing for my words to follow. Sure enough words appeared as if by magic.

A couple hours into this exercise I stopped to read what I had written and was surprised to note that I had been censoring myself. Eh? To what end? Nobody was ever going to read this stuff, it's an exercise, so if it's an exercise I should be doing the exact opposite of censoring myself! I erased everything I had written.

I started over, this time very consciously not censoring myself. If there was the slightest inkling of something in my mind that related to the fantasy I was depicting, I wrote it out as succinctly, articulately, and in as much detail as I possibly could. At the end of the day I read what I had written. Damned if I didn't have a story!

Now admittedly, the story didn't have much in the way of plot and characterization. It was however a pretty decent bit of porn, if your fetish twists in my direction anyway. I was rather pleased with myself. I had accomplished my exercise for the day.

The next day I sat down again in front of the keyboard, hovered my fingers over the keyboard and thought 'novel'. Nothing happened. I thought 'short story'. Nothing happened. I thought 'sexual fantasy' and words started to flow. At the end of the day I had another story. The day after I wound up writing another such fantasy and the day after, yet another one. It took me a couple of weeks to work it out of my system.

I don't recall exactly what I got caught up in afterwards, some computer game likely. I didn't quite get back to my original intent of writing a novel. I started studying computer programming figuring I wanted to create computer games. And at much the same time, I found myself getting connected to the internet.

This was many years back and the web was still quite new. The biggest thing about the internet then was not the web which was virtually in it's infancy, but rather still the newsgroups. So of course one of the very first things I did on the net was to go check out alt.sex.stories. I wanted to see what other people were writing.

I was rather surprised and somewhat dismayed by what I found. I was surprised by the degree of illiteracy among many of the writers, many of them were really bad. And I was dismayed by the degree of misogyny in most of the stories that dealt with my fetishes. I knew they didn't have to be written that way. I had several examples of stories that dealt with those fetishes that were not at all misogynistic, the stories I had written myself.

I thought about it for a few days. Finally I figured, 'Well, the internet is anonymous', (I was a newbie) 'nobody will know it's me if I post one of my stories.' I wanted to show people that these sorts of stories could be written differently. So one evening at midnight I posted one of my stories and went to bed.

The next morning the first thing I did once I had a coffee in my hand was check my Email. Low and behold, I had 30 to 40 Emails all of adulatory praise for my story and asking if I had any more! Wow! Well of course I did have more and it's awfully hard to resist a fan club. So I posted another story and the next day had another crop of Emails waiting when I woke up. Over the next week or so I posted all my stories and when I ran out of stories, I wrote a few more.

I had found a community. I made friends, good friends with whom I shared details of my self I had never shared with anyone before. I scanned and posted some fetish related drawings I did which became popular too. One of my net friends, Vicki, started an Email list with which she sent video captures to as many as three hundred people.

Over time though, the nature of many of the Emails changed. They weren't so much asking for new stories as they were asking for reposts of old stories. Postings to newsgroups expire after a week or two so if somebody doesn't see them right away, they miss them, so I was always having to repost my stories. I got tired of this after a while.

Then one day one of the members of this community started his own web site (blackplague.org) and archived a couple hundred photos and a couple dozn stories and articles he'd collected from the newsgroups (that was a lot back then, 1996). I realized immediately that this was the solution to my problem of having to repost all the time, and put together all of my art and stories in an HTML format with a nice little index and description and mailed them off to Leviathan, the administrator of Blackplague.org. I expected that he would simply include that in his own web site, as at that moment he was not 'hosting' web sites.

I promptly got back from him an FTP address and username/password for building my own web site, which I called 'Peter's Art and Stories'. My site thus became the very first site 'hosted' by Blackplague. Vicki too a couple weeks after built her own web site called 'Necrobabe', as she too was tired of constantly having to send her video captures to people who missed them. We were effectively neighbors in cyberspace, linked together and sharing our community. In short order, several other people started their own web sites there and a burgeoning community was born on the web. Notably among those firsts with web sites was Samson, who soon joined with Vicki and myself in what followed.

We were too popular for our own good it turned out. One day Vicki and I got hit with a bill for bandwidth. Web sites cannot be kept on the web for free, not big or popular sites anyway. Somebody has to pay for all that data traveling through the phone lines and for Vicki and I the dues were up. Vicki and I had a long, long distance phone call. Neither of us were prepared to spend an appreciable portion of our rent for the privilege of giving away stuff. Something had to be done.

We figured we had one of three choices. We could close down our web sites. We of course did not want to do that because we had a community of friends and that would be like abandoning them. We could turn our free web sites into pay sites. We also did not want to do that because our community had grown up freely exchanging our work with each other. Charging for it now seemed somehow a violation of that ethic.

We decided to go with our third option, to open a third site. This new web site would be a member's site where people would pay with their credit cards to get a password to the site. The money collected from memberships would go towards paying the bandwidth for both the member's site and Vicki's and my free sites. Any money left over would go towards the creation of new material for the member's site. We figured running this new site would take a couple of evenings a week, a nice hobby. I built the site itself with photo contributions from several sources while Vicki handled the credit cards. Thus was born 'Necrobabes.com'.

Our calculations were that if we could get one hundred members, we could afford to pay our bandwidth bill. Our wildest hope though was that we would get three hundred members because with that many, we could afford to actually hire models each week to create custom material. Well, we got our three hundred members within the first month! Thing is though that the members kept on coming!

We quickly found ourselves to be growing at a pace neither of us had ever anticipated. We maintained the original focus of wanting to serve our community but it quickly became obvious that our original modest plans were insufficient to meet the demands that this new site placed on us. I had (perhaps naively) thought that I could do the web work for the site just a couple of evenings a week, basically as a hobby. Heh. Silly me. I found myself working full time and supporting myself with my savings, at first just handling photo processing, story text writing, html, etc.. But within the first year, I also started creating photo sets for the sites.

Obviously that situation could not continue and Necrobabes evolved into a full time job for a few people that actually paid the rent. It grew to include a large number of other related web sites (Erotic Horror, Asphyx, Sleepy, Battling Babes, etc.). With the censor of Blackplague (they were shut down by their server hosts for being too extreme), we expanded the original vision of covering the bandwidth cost of Vicki's and my free sites, to actually hosting those and other peoples related sites as well on our own server, and that's where necrobabes.org came from.

I should at this point stop to mention several of the notables who were involved with the community back then. Samson (originally famous for his asphyxia movie guide) joined us as a web site administrator within months of Necrobabes getting started, and ultimately also became involved with production and all parts of the business. Shelby of Dark Fantasies was our most prolific source of photos in the beginning. JohnM (PKF Studios) and Hank (together working then as Club Dead) were among our earliest producers. Several scenes from Killville were present in the initial launch.

Over time, inevitably other member sites opened up and the initial meteoric growth of Necrobabes slowed down significantly. Notably among those earliest other member sites were Dennis with CNB who got started in 1998 if I recall. Serega created Russian Necro Porn roughly around then too (Serega recently created DarkFetishNet.com). Not involved with Necrobabes in any way but someone I care to mention, as we were friends from the earliest Usenet days was Perro Loco, of the gynophagia/Dolcett community. He is still around and the driving force behind dolcettgirls.com. Last but very much not least is Samiam, Sam of Sam's Place, one of my best buddies for the longest time on the web. We must have exchanged literally hundreds of lengthy Emails. Sam is the person who pretty much single handedly managed the necrobabes.'org' domain since it's beginning back in 1997.

Within the first few years of Necrobabes a couple of actresses from those early years became producers themselves, notably Lissa Noble who created DDG (Drop Dead Gorgeous) and Bailee whose production company's have gone through a few name changes over the years, originally Panic Production, then Alternate Reality, and now Horrorgasm. Lissa stopped producing several years ago. Bailee is still producing.

The technology of the Web improved and video came more and more to predominate over photo sets. Necrobabes was a little slow to respond to this beyond opening up the Necrobabes PPV site to sell individual videos. For several years Necrobabes continued to host only photosets on the member sites, while people were gradually coming more to expect video from member sites. It was myself who ultimately took the initiative to start to post videos instead of photosets on the Necrobabes sites, by the simple expedient of creating them myself. I had to learn to produce them quickly and cheaply as the budget I had for any given video would be considered very small by all the independent producers, and I was being called upon at the peak, to produce fifteen videos a week!

Necrobabes itself fell into hard times when Joe, who had morphed into Vicki's original role, fell into his own hard times being over extended in housing speculation at the tail end of the housing boom (last I heard he had mortgages on 13 homes). As his financial pressures grew, it became more and more of a drain on the resources available for production with Necrobabes, and the producers were being squeezed to produce more and more with less and less. Ultimately all the producers got squeezed out until only I was left. I had literally built the site myself from day one, it was 'my' site in my own mind, and I would do whatever it took to keep it going. Unfortunately it got to the point where I was the only producer on staff and being required to produce 15 videos a week with a weekly budget most producers would charge for a single ordinary custom video. It utterly boggles my mind that I was able to stick it out with that situation for over a year.

Various promises were made to me and I was fed quite a few lines so as to occult the true nature of the hard times Necrobabes had fallen on. And I was gullible enough to believe that this was a hump we would get over, so I went deeply into debt during the last years, basically subsidizing production to the sites would stay afloat. Ultimately the final nail was struck when Joe informed me that he was "doing me the favor" of cutting me loose. With perfect clarity of hindsight, I suppose it was a favor in some perverted sense, as at least I was no longer going further into debt. Of course by then I could not go further into debt, I was utterly tapped out, which is probably why I was 'cut loose'.

Nothing new was ever posted from that day forth on Necrobabes, and within a couple of months Necrobabes shut down. I carried on with my own Catharsiserotica.com member site and PPV sales. Samson put the Necrobabes archive onto a new site PPV site, The Progressive Art Project, and did his best to honor the old Necrobabes memberships. Bailee got back involved helping Samson. I formally declared bankruptcy and my gut is a lot healthier, even though I now live like a miser compared to how things were a few years ago.

Over the course of my career I have shot roughly 100,000 photos and 1000 videos. Many of these can be found at the Progressive Art Project, though I believe most of the Sleepyrealm material I created is currently unviewable. I am producing very little nowadays since I lost my shooting studio, mostly coasting on my laurels and reminiscing about the good old days. If I ever win big in a lottery (which I don't often play) I'll create some 'big' things for this community. But until that day comes, the most likely hope for is for Dalila to stimulate me into doing some work with her. So I'm not quite dead yet.

[Nyghtfall]

That's right. Black Plague was more a source of various collections of fetish stuff than a hosting service, and it was 1996-97 when I found them. I don't know why I was thinking '95.

What I remember most was realizing how fucking awesome it was to have found like-minded people who shared similar interests in fantasy death and erotic horror. Samson's Asphyxia Movie Guide especially blew me away. The idea of someone actually cataloging asphyx scenes was a stroke of genius as far as I was concerned. His efforts inspired me to launch my own site and take the idea a step further when I posted my first clip on the Necrobabes Asphyxia forum. Out of the Shadows was born in October 1999, later changed to Matt's Clips, and then finally to Cinemasphyxia.com.

I remember how excited I was when producers started making clips and began moving away from photosets. And then I saw my first clip - the title escapes me at the moment, but I think it was something from KillVille - and I thought, "Oh, crap...". At that moment I realized one distinct advantage photosets still had over video - the shitty acting wasn't noticeable when the action was frozen in a single frame. Staring at pictures, my imagination made scenes a lot more epic than the videos actually were. Thankfully, the videos have gotten a lot better since then.

Today, I buy all of my material from NicheClips, and I have an active membership with EWP, which I've maintained ever since they started posting photosets in high resolution over a year ago.

[bellystabs]

The Accidental Pornographer... I'm not quite dead yet.

And I'm glad you're not!


Of all the great erotic fantasy producers who survived the last decade of change and challenges, you are the only one who has produced a custom for me.

This is a great thread... thanks, Sandi! And thanks to all who have contributed so far.

[Sandi]

Holy Banana Poopies, Batman, why the hell didn't I do this years ago?

FanTASTIC contributions so far, gentlemen, from just the ones we all need them from! I had no idea that Leviathan was anything other than someone relatively 'new'.....LOL...and he predates my entry as a Member/reader.

To each of you, thank you. Nyghtfall began the time line presentation method, and JohnM continued with it, so if I/we could impose just a teensy, weensy bit more upon you, Peter, could you possibly put 'years' to your events?

All of this I have seen, none of it made sense as to how it tied together. Sure I knew of Club Dead and Samson's asphyxia, but never put and '2 and 2' together at all.

And since I came if through Fatal Females (can someone possibly give even a brief description of where Carl entered all of this, and when FF began?, all those Lissa sub-sites from DDG and all were only names to me....and then Anna and Carrie's Amazons (later Becky and Carrie's)...was one I took to immediately.

Now I see also that Serega was not some 'isolated' Russian site owner but was known by and working 'with' you guys. Cool stuff.

And Kevin's idea is superb, thanks, Kevin...to take it slowly. It'll be enough effort to attempt to colate and merge things you all have already said, with year dates affixed where possible.

Peter, as always, you're a gem. I LMAO off at your beginning of your piece, because from 9 years old, before I HAD even a typewriter, let alone a computer, I would sit down randomly (only child here, so we invented our own 'games' and things to do) and simply start to write, stream of consciously, about ANYTHING that flew through the mind at that instant. That later morphed to me carrying an audio recorder with me everywhere, so that I could 'capture' those random thoughts we all have during a day.

And then I began to do the same things on the computer! Just....read something online...and decide it was worth 'writing about'...only for ME at that point, because it was very interesting to look back later and see what I wrote that had relevance, what deserved or that I desired to expand upon, and what was utter crap that upon 2nd read I decided was not the way I felt at all about something.

So that's fascinating to me, Peter, that Peter's Art and Stories, which was MY first non Fatal Females and non-necrobabe investigation, spawned from what you described above.

I surely need time to aborb all the contributions so far, and reread each one 2-3 times before attempting anything in the way of a 'preliminary first draft and timeline'...but it seems there will be at least 'some' interest here, so I'll go forward if others do.

I knew OF the Progressive Art Project, and figured SOMEone had either purchased the old Necrobabes files or owned them from the start and saw some 'pay' opportunity for the 'old stuff'.

Again, even 'Vicki the Necrobabe' STILL has the Celebrity Photo section with the early edition almost of DeMan's Cinemorgue, listing actress by actress what death scenes they had played, and including pictures with at least most of them...or 'a' picture at least but sometimes a small sequence from the same scene.

So I guess, Peter, since you spoke with Vicki by phone back then, she was indeed a woman. I just remember some controversy a few years ago about whether she was or not.

Thanks for all so far, Guys....it's a huge help to begin any such effort. And even if I or someone else does NOTHING with this at this time, it's all here for others to read.

I particularly find it interesting as to who related with whom and who helped whom and worked with whom and all. I knew the name 'Hank' but did not trace him in my own mind any further back than the current Ruemorgue (?)...and I may not have that one right yet....lol. But JohnM's stuff puts much of all together also.

Enough from me for now....hopefully Denis and others will take a turn, also.

and if someone could 'place' FF in that original timeline, I think that would be a help.

I had NO idea of the numbers, Peter....say 100 to pay the bandwidth costs, 300 to enable some personal models, etc. etc...nor did I know how fast it had grown nor how large.

later, gaters....you've now already expanded one Blonde's headie poo to about 500% of maximum capacity....or Maximum Overdrive, as it were.

Sandi

[Peter]

Timeline (Sandi is a slave driver):

This is not meant as a complete time-line. This is me contributing what my memory allows, those parts of the history of this community that were the most relevant to myself.

Pre-90's
Dolcett prolifically draws hundreds of illustrations of women being consensually or at least acquiescently being hung or impaled, often to be roasted and eaten.

1994
Peter writes the story "Bellybutt" as a writing exercise, followed by several more similar stories.

Perro Loco scans most of the Dolcett drawings and makes them available on the Usenet newsgroups. They form by far the bulk of the visual content for this community on the Internet back then.

1995
Peter gets on the internet for the first time, the 'Web' still virtually non-existent. He posts his stories on the Usenet newsgroup, alt.sex.stories. They are extremely popular, requiring frequent re-uploads due to the nature of the newsgroups. He also posts scans of hand drawn art he has done. Perro Loco and Sam of Sam's Place become close Email friends with Peter.

Vicki starts an Email list of people who want video captures of death scenes from TV and movies. Vicki sends photos to people on her list, ultimately having as many as three hundred subscribers.

Peter and Vicki have phone sex.

1996
The Blackplague.com web site gets started early in the year with a couple hundred photos and a couple dozen stories/articles (a lot for that day and age), the very first Web site with content for our community.

Peter sends his own stories and art to Blackplague, already formatted in HTML so as to make it convenient for Leviathan (the administrator of Blackplague) to include it on his web site. Leviathan deals with it not by including it in his web site, but by turning into a web host for other web sites. He sends Peter an FTP address, username/password for uploading the work to Peter's own web site. In short order, Peters Art and Stories, is born containing a huge amount of material for that time.

Within weeks, several other web sites get started with Blackplague, including Vicki's Necrobabe and Samson's Asphyxia Movie Guide. Several more sites get started there, but Peter's and Vicki's are by far the biggest consumers of bandwidth.

By mid summer, the bandwidth usage had grown to such an extent that Leviathan could no longer afford to host everyone for free. Vicki and Peter both got bills for several hundred dollars, with the expectation that further such bills would follow. Together they launch Necrobabes, the first members only pay site, with the intention of using it to pay for all the bandwidth costs. It grows far faster than anyone expected and Peter finds himself working full time for no pay, supporting himself with savings.

Killville and Club Dead (Hank and JohnM) are producing content for Necrobabes from the beginning.

In an effort to generate revenue so as to pay people, Necrobabes spawns a couple of extra member sites, 'Asphyxia' and 'Erotic Horror'. Samson joins the Necrobabes team to administer the Asphyxia site. Soon his role grows.

The IRC chat system grows in popularity, with the chatroom 'snuffsex' being frequently populated by many roleplayers.

1997
Blackplague gets taken off line due to censorship of it's content by it's internet service provider. Necrobabes, now a growing business with capital resources, finds another service provider (the first of several, until finally finding a good one that would not censor). Necrobabes creates the necrobabes.org domain so as to offer free web hosting to anyone in the community wanting to create original content for the people of this community. Most especially, most of those who were originally hosted on Blackplague move onto the necrobabes.org server. Sam creates Sam's Place and takes over the administration of the necrobabes.org domain.

Peter stars shooting photo content at the beginning of the year, ultimately spending less time on web site administration and much more time on content creation. Peter produces under the name of Catharsis Productions.

Over the course of the next few years, Necrobabes spawns a great many other spin-off sites, ultimately stabilizing with the original Necrobabes, followed by; Erotic Horror, Asphyxia, Necrodudes, Amazons, Post-Mortem, SleepyGirls, Barefoot Sleepygirls, Battling Babes, Crazy Carries, Hypno Babes, and Chloro Fantasies.

1998
Cuddly Necrobabes (later simply known as CNB) gets started by Dennis. Serega starts Russian Necroporn. Peter pays Serega $100. a month for Necrobabes advertising banners (out of his own pocket) because he perceives Russia as being a place of economic hardship.

Lissa Noble starts producing for Necrobabes under the name DDG (Drop Dead Gorgeous). Bailee starts producing for Necrobabes under the name Panic Productions, later changed to Alternate Reality Productions, and then changed again to Horrorgasm.

Dr. Don creates his first videos pioneering digital special effects in fetish videos.

Karyn creates her 'LaCasa de Dolcett' where Dolcett's pictures are all collected in one web site. Unfortunately it is a big consumer of bandwidth and she has difficulty finding a free web host. Dolcett and Karyn become friends and Dolcett creates numerous original drawings of Karyn for Karyn's site.

1999
The Golden Age. Photostory production is elaborate with time and budget paid to detail and creativity, often featuring several actresses. All Necrobabes photostories have story texts written with the photos. The producers have been producing long enough that they know what they are doing and are at the top of their game. Everyone is flush. The Catharsis actresses get treated to a Christmas dinner at the fanciest restaurant in the city and get a big bonus as well as presents.

Peter moves into his production studio, but it is not used for shooting for a couple of years yet as other venues offer more elaborate sets.

Karyn's 'LaCasa de Dolcett' finds a home on necrobabes.org. Peter helps her with the web design so that all the links to the picture files are displayed with decent thumbnails.

2000
The last of the Necrobabes spin-off sites gets created with the site Amazons. Technically this was an in house 'Catharsis' production but tentatively administered by two of Peter's most active actresses, Anna and Carrie. Shortly Anna bowed out and it became Becky and Carrie's Amazons. Becky was especially active, writing photostory texts for several hundred photostories, both on Amazons and many other sites.

Dr. Don gets arrested for his work. His trials continue to this day, with the Canadian government always finding new ways to ruin his life.

2001
(I'm not certain of the exact time frame in which the following happened, my memory is faulty, I 'think' it started in 2001.)

The Bush administration had been elected with the help of religious conservatives, in part because promises were made to this constituency that the internet would be censored. Unfortunately due to that pesky Constitution the US is saddled with, the US federal government is prohibited from fulfilling that promise. So a deal was struck in a nice side step. In exchange for the credit card companies being given preferential treatment versus other creditors in bankruptcy proceedings, a deal worth billions to the credit card companies, those companies agreed to censor the internet themselves by refusing to do business with anyone creating material on a list of banned subjects. Over time of course that list has grown to the point now where jello wrestling scenes are prohibited. They will keep growing that list until either everything is prohibited or something else comes along to render credit cards obsolete.

Necrobabes and many other sites started repeatedly loosing their credit card services and it became the bane of our community. Those problems persist to this day. The profitability of producing content for this community has declined ever since as the potential customer base has grown more and more limited due to restrictions on who could purchase.

2002
Peter takes his first tentative steps into the world of video production, finding the going very hard at first. He produces all of seven videos in the first year.

Necrobabes launches it's PPV site to market those videos and much other content. Ultimately the Necrobabes PPV site offers thousands of videos and photosets for sale.

Karyn retires from running 'LaCasa de Dolcett' due to life pressures. Peter not wanting the work he did on her site to go to waste asks if it would be ok if he took it over. Karyn agrees and passes along Dolcett's blessing, on the condition that the site be re-engineered so as to no longer be 'LaCasa de Dolcett'. The Dolcett Archives are born. http://necrobabes.org/dolcett/

2003
Becky and Carrie are unable to continue with administering the Amazons site and it is formally taken over by Peter.

Perro Loco creates dolcettgirls.com which grows into one of the most active forums in this community.

2004
File sharing starts to become more ubiquitous. As the videos created by the community's fetish producers are often available for free for the unscrupulous and patient, the market gets even harder to create content profitably. This problem continues to grow over time.

Peter starts to regularly shoot video content for the Necrobabes member sites.

2005
The financial squeeze is passed on to the Necrobabes producers. Budgets start to be nibbled at, requiring productions to get less elaborate and less creative, in the effort to shave costs.

2006
Production budgets at Necrobabes continue to be cut. Lissa Noble retires from producing.

2007
Bailee retires from producing for Necrobabes as production budgets are slashed. Only Peter is left, producing all content for all of the Necrobabes sites and being required to do so with a budget vastly lower than what even the most basic production costs. He is promised that this is a short term hump and that it will be made up to him. He goes deeply into debt trying to keep the sites afloat.

In a desperation move, Peter starts Catharsiserotica.com in an effort to generate revenue outside of Necrobabes. The effort proves fraught with technical problems.

2008
Peter is completely tapped out, all his avenues of credit extended to the maximum. He is informed that he is being cut loose from Necrobabes to fend for himself. No new production is created from that point for Necrobabes. Predictably Necrobabes ceases operations a couple months afterwards.

The Progressive Art Project http://www.the-progressive-art-project.com gets started by Samson and Bailee, making use of much of the content formerly available on Necrobabes. It is a badly needed lifeline for several producers.

Catharsiserotica.com and a trickle of sales from Nicheclips.com and the-progressive-art-project.com keep Peter barely afloat. But he is down from his peak of 15 videos a week to more like 15 videos as year, much due to loosing his shooting studio.

2009
Peter formally declares bankruptcy and while now living like a miser, has a much healthier gut.

2010
Serega of Russian Necroporn, creates DarkFetishNet.com and breathes new life into our community.

*

Notably missing from this time-line due to my lack of memory is when Nicheclips got started, which is a big deal for most producers. Also the time-line is missing for Templar and his Darksites.net site and other related gallery sites. Of course other producers need to add their particulars as well.

[WAVE]

Without going into a whole list of productions, I just wanted to note that WAVE began back in 1987 and produced our first custom tape in 1988. We have a catalogue of well over 200 feature length films as well as numerous shorts. Another company around that time was Falcon Video.

Our website came online in 1997. Before that, everything was mail order and sales at horror conventions. That's where we first met G-Man in the spring of 1998. I think Fatal Females started shortly after that.

Hope this helps with your timeline.

Gary

[Nyghtfall]

Notably missing from this time-line due to my lack of memory is when Nicheclips got started, which is a big deal for most producers.

October, 2005.

[Max5s]

I think it is probably pretty obvious who the movers and shakers in this "business" were in the early days, and I thank them for providing not only the content, but also the opportunities for others like myself to participate. I especially want to thank Peter, BigJohn and Susy Gabrielle for the chance to spend some time doing something I enjoy.

I got involved with this enterprise between the time Peter's first site went up and the starting of the NB enterprise. I wrote a lot of stories and posted them at NB and Sonya's site, and Sam has several of them archived on the public NB forum.

After Peter started posting so many photostories, I contacted him and volunteered to help write the text material that went with them. Peter agreed and at some point formed a writer's guild. Although I was not THE most prolific contributor (I think Becky was), I wrote one hell of a lot of stories to accompany the photographs taken by Peter, Lissa, Bailee and a few others.

Much later I got involved with Annabelle's and wrote a number of scripts for the original owners. I didn't count them, but there must have been between 20 and 30 that were made into videos including the 7 of the 10 vedeos for their Samantha Smoothkill series. Great fun.

After BigJohn bought AF, I continued to keep in touch with the new owner and wrote a few more scripts until the infamous British parliament decided to clean up the morals of its subjects and and a certain cretin decided to extract a pound of flesh from one model and BigJohn.

In December of 2008, BigJohn asked me to collaborate with him and Susy Gabrielle to further the AF enterprise. I became a production coordinator of sorts and have authored most of the content on Anne's Dreams ever since. Working with John and Susy has been a lot of fun, and as a team, we have produced over 200 videos.

In summary, I guess I've been involved at some level almost from the start. I didn't have a computer when it actually got going or I'd have been there earlier. I actually discovered all of this when surfing on a friend's computer during a July 4th weekend. I got the computer soon after back when a phone modem was the hottest thing in Internet connections. I been mostly in the background, but ever present.

Again, I thank Peter, BigJohn and Susy for all the opportunities they provided to me.

I also want to thank Templar for inspiring me to get involved. He and I share certain interests and often chatted about them back in the day.

Max

[bellystabs]

Notably missing from this time-line due to my lack of memory is when Nicheclips got started, which is a big deal for most producers.

October, 2005.

And prior to that it was a single-producer website called Orgasmagoria. Lorenzo (based in Miami) had some hot girls (Zena, Jasmine, Slyyy, etc) and created some of my Top 50 movies that I still watch today. He was also cool about accepting checks in those days of ever-changing payment providers. He, like JohnM, never appeared in his movies, and he stopped producing and began hosting all the sites you now see on Nicheclips.

I don't know if he will contribute to this thread, so maybe other producers who know Lorenzo can add to (or correct) my limited knowledge about him. Orgasmagoria may have started in the late 90s. I know for sure it was around in 2001 because that is when I found his website and bought "Puncture Perfect" starring the petite and pretty Zena.