Male deaths in customs

[CinemorgueFan]

Women MMA is not the WWE nor intended for fetishers audience.

It is a sport like football or judo, sexual moralism has no right to be there, it would be against the rules and laws that govern sports in the world.

Official MMA websites has no right to put in those bias, while in fact they are doing it...

There definitely shouldn't be bias towards looks in an actual sport - it should be about actual skill. Unfortunately, when it comes to a sport with people you could be attracted to, that's inevitable.

Anyone who has a problem with that should obviously stick to professional wrestling or fetish.

I know I have my own biases in this subject and I don't hide them. So, I stick to fetish, allowing me control over who wins.

[CinemorgueFan]

Although mostly off-topic, this discussion has at least established a reason why male deaths are uncommon in customs. A lot of producers don’t intend for male deaths to be erotic, which defeats the point of including them in erotic productions.

I think male deaths should be an option for anyone who wants to see them, but it’s the right of the producer to employ who they want to employ and film what they want to film.

[Ric delCampo]

I recently commissioned a custom video. It was based on one of my short stories. My story had three female characters and one male character.
I asked about the male character and they informed me that they, and more importantly, their audience, preferred female actresses/characters only.
So I had no problem switching the male character to a female character. And then changing the ending of the story. An ending I would have not included if the character would have remained male.

Link:

[Totallibertarianism]

And yet, there's no outrage over shooting the space invaders, stomping on Goombas and Koopas, or blowing up Sinistar. There wasn't even controversy over being able to eat civilians in Rampage.

How do you know that there is no outrage over these games you are talking ? You did a poll about it in the world and you found the result : 100 % no outrage ?

You maybe not knowing but you can always find a minority among persons who will be outraged even for a video game like Super Mario Bros. Yes I know some of these persons, when I was a child, the friend of my member of family, she was an adult in that time and found some little disturbing when Mario has crushed a turtle and mushroom with his ass and legs.

But is anyone upset by Frieza dying? Is anyone upset by Cell dying? Of course not. They're the bad guys.

And again how do you know that ? You did a poll in the world with the question : "Did you feel sadness when Freezer and Cell died in DBZ ?" and you found the result : 100 % NO ? As I said before, you will find always a minority who will feel sadness even for the most cruel and barbaric criminal, this is the complexity of the human mind that you don't seem to understand.

And Yes I can confirm, I know some persons who felt sadness when Freezer died in that time, persons in high school who love villains in superheros movies and comics, they were always collecting photos and cards of super villains in comics. I was a child in that time and I didn't understand their feeling.

If it truly was completely aleatory and relative to the persons who are playing the videos games, you would have outrage over every video game with death, which is virtually every video game.

If it was completely aleatory and relative to the persons playing or watching the video games, they could feel for all the deaths, but they don't because fictional deaths still require more than being just deaths to resonate. People care about the deaths of Arthur Morgan and John Marston because the creators made people care about the characters.

Do you understand when I'm saying "aleatory and relative to the person who are watching the movie or playing the video games" ? Aleatory means none too, some will react some not, there is no consensus of what or how the persons will react when they are watching a movie, even the greatest neurologist of the world can not respond to that question but apparently you have the response ?

No, the reactions of the public to the death scenes in videos games are based on what the creators intended for the persons playing or watching the video games to feel.

The audience reaction may not always align with what the creators intended, but that still falls under "others elements" - whether it be the audience being angered by Carl's death in The Walking Dead for wasting the character's potential or being angered by Donna Troy's death in Titans for being mind-numbingly stupid.

You are trying to explain but contradicting yourself in your answer... You have already the answer in your mind, the producer doesn't control the reaction of the public, as I said it it is completely aleatory and relative to the person who are watching the movies and playing the video games.

but they don't because fictional deaths still require more than being just deaths to resonate. People care about the deaths of Arthur Morgan and John Marston because the creators made people care about the characters.

No, I'm saying if there's outrage or another emotional response to a death scene in a movie it's because the death wasn't just a death scene. It could have been the death scene of a character the audience cared about, the death could have been too graphic for fiction, or there's an erotic intent behind the death.

You are talking me about "just a death scene that don't create emotion or outrage" and those "others death scenes that could create emotion and outrage", what is your definition of a "simple death scene" and "those others death scenes" in a movie and video games ? Heart attack, Dying of old age in her bed, being shot down by a fire arms, Suicide, being raped and killed, or the killing scene of Kirillin in DBZ ?

The true response, you already know it, every death scenes in a movie and in the video games could create emotions and outrages or not, there is no consensus in the people mind, it is completely aleatory and relative to the persons who are watching the movies or playing the video games, even the best neurolgist can not respond to that question.

The only truth in that, is any death scene in a movie or in a video game you will find always a minority who could be outraged and feel emotion. Which means as I said from the beginning "there are always moral or ethical issues for death scenes in movies" and you were wrong from the beginning when you said =>

We're not talking about the death and losses of humans, we're talking about the death and losses of fictional characters. You can use proportion for the death and losses of fictional characters because they are not real and there is no moral or ethical issues in recognizing major character death =/= minor character death because that's specifically the point.

And you are talking as a person who know every mind of each person, you know and you are sure at 100 % if people will react or not to a death scene while even the best neurolgist can not respond to that question. You are thinking that there is a consensus in every part of the reality like the bible and religious ideologies while the reality is infinite and the possiblity is also infinite...

[Totallibertarianism]

Women MMA is not the WWE nor intended for fetishers audience.

It is a sport like football or judo, sexual moralism has no right to be there, it would be against the rules and laws that govern sports in the world.

Official MMA websites has no right to put in those bias, while in fact they are doing it...

There definitely shouldn't be bias towards looks in an actual sport - it should be about actual skill. Unfortunately, when it comes to a sport with people you could be attracted to, that's inevitable.

Anyone who has a problem with that should obviously stick to professional wrestling or fetish.

I know I have my own biases in this subject and I don't hide them. So, I stick to fetish, allowing me control over who wins.

It is not me who is doing illegal thing in that and not me who have a problem, it is those who are ruling the MMA and the responsibles of the broadcasting who are "maybe" doing something wrong in their works.

Yes it is not my problem but it is them who have problem in sport.

[CinemorgueFan]

How do you know that there is no outrage over these games you are talking ? You did a poll about it in the world and you found the result : 100 % no outrage ?

You maybe not knowing but you can always find a minority among persons who will be outraged even for a video game like Super Mario Bros. Yes I know some of these persons, when I was a child, the friend of my member of family, she was an adult in that time and found some little disturbing when Mario has crushed a turtle and mushroom with his ass and legs.

If you play the literal card, you may (keyword: may) find outrage over these games, but not the outrage you were talking about. Not the outrage that's actually notable. The point here is controversy over video game violence is not about the simple inclusion of deaths and describing anyone outraged by Super Mario Bros. as "a minority" demonstrates the divide between legitimate controversial deaths and cherry-picking. It's always another factor, whether it be extreme violence (Manhunt), killing innocent bystanders (Carmageddon), or being downright offensive (Ethnic Cleansing).

To go back to the earlier point, you were trying to equate fictional deaths with real life deaths. The fact that these additional factors are needed to actually draw a response to fictional content - unlike in real life - demonstrates they are not the same.

And again how do you know that ? You did a poll in the world with the question : "Did you feel sadness when Freezer and Cell died in DBZ ?" and you found the result : 100 % NO ? As I said before, you will find always a minority who will feel sadness even for the most cruel and barbaric criminal, this is the complexity of the human mind that you don't seem to understand.

And Yes I can confirm, I know some persons who felt sadness when Freezer died in that time, persons in high school who love villains in superheros movies and comics, they were always collecting photos and cards of super villains in comics. I was a child in that time and I didn't understand their feeling.

And again, you play the literal card. Maybe (keyword: maybe) not literally every person wasn't sad about Frieza and Cell dying, but there was a consensus formed. The general consensus did not feel sadness towards the deaths of the villains. And just because people love fictional villains and collect their merchandise doesn't mean they're sad about the villain's death - at least not in the same way as the hero's death. They can admire the villain, but recognize the villain had to be defeated and don't feel a sense of loss they would have with the hero. Plus, Frieza didn't even die in that time. He didn't actually die until Future Trunks showed up.

What you don't seem to understand is these views only become a factor by taking statements literally and these views are minority with little to no weight behind them. Try to seriously find people who were legitimately saddened by the deaths of Joffrey Baratheon and Ramsay Bolton. If you're somehow successful with that, ask for the reasons why and the reasons will be ridiculous. These characters might be respected as villains, but no one actually invested in the show was sad to see them go. Again, there was a consensus formed about these deaths. The consensus mourns the death of Ned Stark and celebrates the deaths of Joffrey and Ramsay.

To go back to the earlier point, you were trying to equate fictional deaths with real life deaths. The fact that different characters can have a contrasting consensus towards their death and certain characters' deaths are celebrated without moral qualms - unlike in real life - demonstrates they are not the same.

Do you understand when I'm saying "aleatory and relative to the person who are watching the movie or playing the video games" ? Aleatory means none too, some will react some not, there is no consensus of what or how the persons will react when they are watching a movie, even the greatest neurologist of the world can not respond to that question but apparently you have the response ?

Do you understand when you say "completely", you're attributing the response entirely to the viewer and disregarding the creator who planted the seeds for a response? You may think it's just the viewer, but the viewer's response is rooted in what the creator did, whether intentional or unintentional. The reaction or non-reaction is based in how effective the creator was. And we're not talking hypotheticals, we're talking content that's actually been released and there is a consensus towards reactions to released content. You demonstrated that with the reactions to the deaths of Arthur Morgan and John Marston. Unless you're incapable of recognizing human emotions, it doesn't take science to see people visibly upset by some fictional deaths and celebrating others.

You are trying to explain but contradicting yourself in your answer... You have already the answer in your mind, the producer doesn't control the reaction of the public, as I said it it is completely aleatory and relative to the person who are watching the movies and playing the video games.

You are trying to answer, but not understanding the point made. This point has never been about producers "controlling" reactions of the public, but about influencing the reactions of the public, negating your "completely" argument. The point here is even when reaction wasn't what the creator intended, it's still rooted in what they presented before the audience. The showrunner of The Walking Dead put forth killing Carl over utilizing his future potential, which generated the negative response. The showrunner of Titans put forth Wonder Girl not being able to withstand man-harnessed electricity, while Superboy does nothing, which generated it negative response. It still comes down to what the creators did (or sometimes didn't do). Without it, it is literally impossible for the person watching the movie and / or playing the video game to even have a reaction.

You are talking me about "just a death scene that don't create emotion or outrage" and those "others death scenes that could create emotion and outrage", what is your definition of a "simple death scene" and "those others death scenes" in a movie and video games ? Heart attack, Dying of old age in her bed, being shot down by a fire arms, Suicide, being raped and killed, or the killing scene of Kirillin in DBZ ?

You're missing the point by focusing on manners of death and not what actually matters - the importance of the death. Krillin is a major character, hence why his death doesn't fall under those descriptions. Try arguing Krillin's death has the same emotional weight as a minor villain (remember Orlen? I had to look that name up) and you'll look absurd.

The true response, you already know it, every death scenes in a movie and in the video games could create emotions and outrages or not, there is no consensus in the people mind, it is completely aleatory and relative to the persons who are watching the movies or playing the video games, even the best neurolgist can not respond to that question.

The true response, whether you acknowledge it, is only certain death scenes and video games create legitimate, logical emotions and / or outrages. Emotion and / or outrage to every death scene is rooted in literalism and absurdity, separating it from the consensus in people's minds. There is a consensus in people's minds and you demonstrated that with the video reactions to Arthur Morgan and John Marston dying. It is not completely aleatory and relative to the persons watching the movies and / or playing the video games because the creator provided the material for the reaction. Anyone who can comprehend human emotion can see that.

The only truth in that, is any death scene in a movie or in a video game you will find always a minority who could be outraged and feel emotion.

The only truth in that is being outraged by every minor death scene in a movie or in a video game is rooted in literalism and absurdity. The minority doesn't have a legitimate stance for going against the consensus...

Which means as I said from the beginning "there are always moral or ethical issues for death scenes in movies" and you were wrong from the beginning when you said

...which actually means you were wrong from the beginning when you said, "there are always moral or ethical issues for death scenes in movies" because any assertions of "moral or ethical issues" with minor and legitimate villain deaths are negated by them rooted in absurdity. There are no legitimate moral and / or ethical issues raised when the issues are absurd.

And you are talking as a person who know every mind of each person, you know and you are sure at 100 % if people will react or not to a death scene while even the best neurolgist can not respond to that question. You are thinking that there is a consensus in every part of the reality like the bible and religious ideologies while the reality is infinite and the possiblity is also infinite...

And you are talking as a person who is obfuscating a simple situation by trying to make death seem complex and mysterious when people already share their mind on them. It doesn't take science to know how each person reacts or not to a death scene when they opened up their mind - it only takes basic understanding of human emotions. This has nothing to do with every part of reality; it's about fictional content, which isn't reality to begin with. You are thinking this is some complex, serious topic like the Bible and religious ideologies while the reality is about a simplistic subject that becomes outweighed by real deaths.

This whole thing was generated by assertions of gender inequality because men die more in the movies, regardless of if a higher proportion of women die. These attempts to draw weight to all fictional deaths is an attempt to disregard the importance of gender proportion deaths, but it's invalidated by the simple reality of fictional deaths still not being the same and still not having the same weight as real-life deaths. These arguments also ignore that fictional works have a set amount of characters, making it literally impossible for there to be more female deaths than male deaths in certain works. To insist a film like Inglourious Basterds is inequal to men by the numbers when the only major female characters die and the most important male characters survive is completely absurd.

A major theme of this community and form is separating fantasy from reality. By trying to give all fantasy deaths the same weight as real-life deaths, you're opening up the can of worms the anti-death fetish crowd will pounce on.

[CinemorgueFan]

It is not me who is doing illegal thing in that and not me who have a problem, it is those who are ruling the MMA and the responsibles of the broadcasting who are "maybe" doing something wrong in their works.

Yes it is not my problem but it is them who have problem in sport.

Not saying that's on you, that's on the people who don't understand the nature of competition sports. Any given Sunday - the winner is who showed up to win, regardless of who the general public thinks is more physically attractive.

Let those people have a problem - it's not the sport's fault they don't understand it.

[CinemorgueFan]

To play devil's advocate - yeah, there is gender inequality when it comes to deaths in death fetish customs. But that's based on consumer demand. Don't like how women predominantly die in custom videos? Order custom videos with male deaths! Even if not all studios offer male deaths, you'll find one that does.

[CinemorgueFan]

I recently commissioned a custom video. It was based on one of my short stories. My story had three female characters and one male character.
I asked about the male character and they informed me that they, and more importantly, their audience, preferred female actresses/characters only.
So I had no problem switching the male character to a female character. And then changing the ending of the story. An ending I would have not included if the character would have remained male.

Link:

That's interesting to know, thanks. Like I mentioned in the OP, I know some studios don't even employ male talent.

Granted, the custom is your specific vision and however another audience perceives it is irrelevant. You're the one paying for it. But if you're satisfied, that's all that matters.

Do you have a link to the short story? I'm curious to see how it compares to the video without spoilers beforehand.

Yeah - the story of a custom has appeal to me, haha.

[JIMBO]

I think it was also a tribute to the actress' death in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I haven't seen it, so I can't comment on any similarities.

That one was over the top.... a murderous Manson girl is torched with a flame thrower! It's a fun movie if you are familiar with the Sharon Tate murders, offering a "what if?" scenario if things turned out differently.

BTW, another memorable babe burning is the demise of the evil QUEEN OF OUTER SPACE. Sexy!



Jimbo

[CinemorgueFan]

That one was over the top.... a murderous Manson girl is torched with a flame thrower! It's a fun movie if you are familiar with the Sharon Tate murders, offering a "what if?" scenario if things turned out differently.

BTW, another memorable babe burning is the demise of the evil QUEEN OF OUTER SPACE. Sexy!



Jimbo

And that's the same actress! Maybe she's going to make a trend out of it.

I'm aware of the murders and the film being an alternative history, like Inglourious Basterds - Tarantino has been making a trend out of directing violence towards those who deserve it.

I'm not familiar with Queen of Outer Space - a female burning death that comes to my mind is Don't Go in the House (with a flamethrower no less). However, that might not be your style because it's a victim's murder instead of a villain's defeat.

Speaking of Tarantino, a male burning death that comes to mind is John Hawkes in From Dusk till Dawn, which helps highlight the tonal contrast between the two halves of the film.

[Ric delCampo]

Do you have a link to the short story? I'm curious to see how it compares to the video without spoilers beforehand.

Yeah - the story of a custom has appeal to me, haha.

The original story was posted at Fet Noir, (now known as Deadly Desires.) It occurred to me that I never posted that story here.

I wanted to give SLA some time to sell the video before posting the story here-- as the written version would have many spoilers to the video. I think I'll give them about a month, then post the story, along with a link to the SLA website where they sell their videos.

As I said somewhere else: I want this video to be very successful for them, so they'll be eager to film any other custom I may have for them.

[CinemorgueFan]

The original story was posted at Fet Noir, (now known as Deadly Desires.) It occurred to me that I never posted that story here.

I wanted to give SLA some time to sell the video before posting the story here-- as the written version would have many spoilers to the video. I think I'll give them about a month, then post the story, along with a link to the SLA website where they sell their videos.

As I said somewhere else: I want this video to be very successful for them, so they'll be eager to film any other custom I may have for them.

Sounds good. I'm on Deadly Desires, but I'm going to try seeing the video before I read the story to see how they compare.

Part of the appeal for me is how the story and video are different, which usually becomes an aspect of adaptations in the first place.

It's especially intriguing for me because of the gender flip aspect. I'd probably also change aspects of a story if I had to make a gender flip.