Femme Fatalities Message Board

You know, I've wondered this too. One time I found came across some a video (can't remember what it was) where this actress did a really brutal, punishing death scene and gave an absolutely incredible performance. I looked her up so that I could buy her something off an Amazon wishlist or tip her somehow, and found on her social media profile that she'd had some sort of breakdown, similar to Harmony Wonder. She wrote about suffering from a mysterious chronic illness, of doctors not listening to her (one of those hard-to-quantify things like fibromyalgia). She wrote about pain that prevented her from performing. She was trying to sell jewelry to stay afloat. Very, very similar story to Harmony Wonder. It was sad. I wish I could remember who this was. There was also an actress named Raven Alexis, who did some amazing super-violent films back in the day, who died at a super young age of 35 from Crohn's. It made me wonder if getting treated so brutally, even in a scene, does some kind of trauma to the body, which then manifests itself in illness.

But I think the truth is this: women go into sex work for all sorts of different reasons, and with varying histories, boundaries, and psychic defenses. I have worked in porn myself, and I have a lot of friends who do various types of sex work (domming, porn, escorting, etc) so I have a pretty good view of the industry. Some performers treat it purely as a job, no different than going to the office, and able to separate work from their inner life. Other performers see it as a calling: they actually love doing these scenes or services: it gets them off, and it's a form of catharsis and self-expression. But sometimes, women go into this work because they had some sort of trauma (like abuse) that they haven't faced, and doing porn or escorting actually deepens that unprocessed trauma. It's like if you have a wound, and instead of going to the doctor to treat it, you continually pick the scab off by putting yourself in situations that remind you of your initial trauma. I don't think this is the majority of performers. But it does happen. I've seen it. This is no way intended to speculate on Harmony Wonder's specific situation. It's more of a general musing on sex work and mental health.

Is there something about death scenes in particular that can exacerbate a performer's mental health more than other types of porn? Possibly. Dying is a very primal thing - you're facing your mortality, the fact that one day, you will no longer exist. That's about as existential as it gets. There are some film productions where the shoot looks like it was very light and campy and goofy, but there are others, involving rape and degradation, where you can really get the sense that the model's state of mind taps into a dark, primal, fearful place. I know "it's called acting," but actors do tap into real emotions. That type of intimacy + being faced with death is a potent combination. That type of stressor, combined with other factors (someone's neurochemistry, current circumstances, etc) can absolutely trigger both physical and mental illness. I'm not saying that making these kinds of films is fundamentally bad or dangerous. A professional can plumb that darkness and exit a scene intact. But not everyone has those skills.

Hopefully, there are systems in place where producers and fellow performers can make sure that an actor is in a good place - that includes hiring practices that filter out anyone who seems too fragile/unstable, as well as on-set safety to make sure that a shoot stays within the bounds of what an actor is comfortable with, and aftercare to help an actor feel safe after a scene concludes. This exists in other types of porn, I'm not really familiar with this part of the industry so I don't know how all these producers run their sets. Obviously, porn producers aren't psychologists, and sometimes, performers who really shouldn't be performing have a great poker face. But I do feel it's possible to run a set ethically to mitigate for risk so that your contractors don't get "injured on the job."

I think you're right to ask this question. For me personally, when I consume this content, I kind of go off of vibes. Sometimes, I'll come across a film where there's a look of despair in a performer's eyes, and I can tell she doesn't really want to be doing this. I won't watch that. But for the most part, I do get the vibe that for these performers, it's just a job - maybe even a fun job. You'll never really know what's truly going on for a performer. I think all you can do as a consumer of the content is read vibes and try to support producers who you feel care for the well-being of their cast.

As Taylor Tomlinson says in her act a person isn’t fully developed mentally until at least 25. I think in harmonys case she was emotionally immature despite her content. I mean being held up in the air by her throat by rock who is a huge guy must mess one up a little it must be scary

Raven Alexis was super hot on Sex and murder league 3, having her throat slit while fucked from behind. I loved the concept of that series!
Btw, never got Sex and murder league 2, wondering where to find it

Well, it looks like the last 10 years of the cult of conspiracy theories has made it to this forum.

Mental illness was first documented in 1100BC. So, that is over 3100 years of people having various mental illness, from anxiety, depression, bipolar---and all the other stuff you can look up in the DSM-5-TR. Fun fact, I minored in abnormal psychology, and was only a few classes away from that degree. So, I may know a little bit.

Anyhow, I am pretty confident that the last 16 or so years of making fetish movies has not contributed to 3000+ years of historical pathology in any way. I will say that people that have issues, look for and get jobs. Adult work and regular jobs. People with anxiety and depression, fight demons daily sitting behind the counter of a mortgage company or as a plant worker on an assembly line, as a farmer, a fireman, and yes, even a greeter at Walmart. And those jobs, don't always help. But those are every day jobs, 30-40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Work sucks for a lot of people, especially people with various pathologies. Many do fine, but just as many don't. There are lots of people on medication now-a-days. ADHD is very common as well as anxiety and forms of depression.

Acting in fetish videos is not a full time job. It is occasional contract work. Harmony worked for me twice, two 2-day shoots over a year. And in a 2 year period she made about 100 mainstream adult movies for other companies. And, just like most models at one of my shoots, she smiled, laughed, sometimes silly, and professional. When 2020 hit (over a year after she had last worked for me), she, like nearly 25% of the global population, reported an increase in depression. And I do know more about this---and personal stuff, the family stuff involved and it has nothing to do with any work she ever did.

She already had depression, anxiety, probably bipolar, and maybe on medication long, long, before starting adult work. Often forms of mental illness onset is at a young age, with the signs of issues usually by middle school. It is family and support that typically predict the outcome. And while some things caused are exacerbated by trauma---like molestation, violent alcoholic parent, or bombs landing all around while sheltering in a war zone----making a few silly fetish movies are not on the list of life-changing experiences.

Keep in mind, it is usually pre-existing pathology that drives choice.

Case in point, Raven. And keep in mind, I have way, way more insight on these things then any Monday night quarterbacks, no matter how neat it makes you sound to toss out these fun "theories". Raven was pretty normal as adult models go--very motivated to produce her own content and launch businesses. Several years after she moved on to full time mainstream porn, some strange behavior emerged like the infamous Howard Stern interview. And after then, she just went onto being married, raising a family. And, some people die from stuff that is completely unrelated to a few days of silly fetish movies 15 years earlier.

The tragedy here is putting any sort of value in the content of a human life to a few fetish films they made. It places such value where it does not deserve to be.

And here is another thing. What do you think happens at a shoot? What kind of atmosphere do you think exists? Are you picturing dark, dank sets, gloomy music, some nasty director screaming at the girl to perform or else and a bunch of random men stroking off while whipping themselves under a pentagram. Get real. Has anyone ever seen a tv show or movie getting made? And I know there are some famous "tough productions" like Apocalypse Now, but Martin Sheen is just fine. Movies are fake. Fetish movies are fake. Everything is fake. The mood in the finished film is what I want you to see. All the silly stuff, it gets cut out. When you start believing what you see on camera is real, um, well, I don't know what to say. I guess, part of me things I must be real good at directing and part of me worries about the brain cell count of certain people that are watching my movies. Yes, some models look really intense when they act. But they ones that especially do it well, I can tell you it was super easy for them, and when I yell cut---it all turns to smiles and laughter.

Anyhow, mental illness is a loaded term. I can be OCD. I get anxious. I get depressed. I am a bit bipolar. But I don't need medication--it is manageable, and that is where a lot of people are. Some people are more then that, and I think social media makes it worse for Millennials and GenZ especially. And, I think what could have been early onset manageable--what I consider from my 80's perspective of (just deal with it), has become much harder. And so it goes.

But in my 30 years of producing, the only breakdown on a shoot I ever witnesses was back in Ruemorgue days---I think around 2005, when a model had a panic attack because, she admitted later she forgot to pack her meds. Oops. After a little break, she finished her scene, then went home early---because death fetish producer are not monsters that force girls to work when they don't feel like it.....DUH.

Anyhow, I am sure conspiracy theories are fun and all. But they just make people seem...well, silly.

Mental health is a serious issue that has been around for a long, long time. Social media and recently, the pandemic magnified some of the issues, especially in youth, where forms of nearly undetectable early onset autism increases issue. And then, there are the early life trigger like rape, incest, etc....and that happens as well. Most, have figured it out by the time they are in there 20's and found jobs that allow them to work within there pathology and make money. For many, adult work and other types of gig work are the best options to work around these issues where a 40hr 9-5 work week would not be tolerable.

So, bottom line, making a few fetish videos will not give you Crohn's Disease, make you go loopy, or turn into a frog. It just won't. And if you masturbate while watching a porn, fetish video, or an episode of Grey's Anatomy, the only one responsible for that, is you.

Thanks,
JohnM

I didn't say that there was a direct correlation between porn and Crohn's lmao - that's an oversimplification of what I wrote. I said that a confluence of psychological factors, such as a history of trauma (like rape, as you mention), neurochemistry (aka things like bipolar, as you mention), life stressors (aka things like the pandemic, as you mention), coupled with intense experiences (such as, for example, an intense shoot) can converge to create both physical and mental symptomps. If you're familiar with the research of psychiatrist Bessel van der Kolk, you know that there's a whole school of thought around the notion that psychological symptoms can manifest themselves somatically, which is where I was going with my thoughts. You can disagree with me, but please don't call me a conspiracy theorist, somatic theory has been around since Wilhelm Reich.

It's great to hear that your sets are positive for the performers. As I said in my post, I can't comment on how death-fetish producers run their sets, but based on my experience in the more general adult industry, I can tell you 100% that there are sets where boundaries do get crossed, performers get pushed, and bad things happen. And I personally know working porn performers who do tap into intense real emotions to do a good performance. This happens in mainstream acting as well.

Edited to add:

The tragedy here is putting any sort of value in the content of a human life to a few fetish films they made. It places such value where it does not deserve to be.

I agree with you 100% here. Beautifully and eloquently stated. A great point in this discussion in particular, and on the nature of how people get marked/stigmatized for this kind of work in general. My point wasn't that a negative experience on a porn shoot for a particular individual would be *the* primary cause of mental or physical symptom onset. I just really do believe that there are rare cases where an event like that CAN contribute in some way, downstream of other bigger factors, to a breakdown. It was not a point in reference to a particular actor or producer - as mentioned I can't comment on Harmony's specific situation, I don't know her, etc. It was more of a general hypothesis, which I stand by.

Primavera wrote: ↑Mon Jun 24, 2024 11:56 pm I can't comment on how death-fetish producers run their sets, but based on my experience in the more general adult industry, I can tell you 100% that there are sets where boundaries do get crossed, performers get pushed, and bad things happen. And I personally know working porn performers who do tap into intense real emotions to do a good performance. This happens in mainstream acting as well.

I have no idea how other producers run their sets. As for mainstream porn, I have heard anecdotal stories over the years from the internet, but after working with hundreds of adult stars over the period where I was hiring directly from adult agencies, I cannot think of anything other then the occasional conflict of personalities, usually between two actors. I never heard about any issues on set, director issues, etc. There was some grumbling over the years about adult agencies in general, and that is part of the reason I moved away from using them. In addition, with adult agencies, my first experience with the actor was when they came to my shoot. I much rather have conversations, meetings, prior--to get to know the actor better before committing to work with them. And, that method has always worked best for me.

Porn companies, are about making porn. My company, porn is part of many aspects of the content I create. There is usually only 20min of penetrative sex the entire day spread over a few movies with other types of sexual and simulated sexual content. With mainstream porn companies---it's just a lot of porn.

And for sure, there are times when an actor really gets into the scene or the moment. Having worked with well over 400-500 actors since my Ruemorgue days, there have been anecdotal moments where an actor really gets into it and at one time or another, reached an emotional stopping point and needed a moment. And, like with anything that strains or wears someone out, we stop, wait, rest, reset, and continue.

Anyhow, while it is true that many that go into adult work and certain other jobs, like gig work (doordash, etc.) have a pathology that helps determine the type of job they want so that they can better manage there mental health, there is certainly no rulebook on what type of jobs they can get, and how that job will interact with their emotions. I have known people that feel they have been emotionally wrecked after doing contract work for GrubHub. And a very good friend of mine worked for years as a legal assistant for an attorney only to be emotionally wrecked by his incessant harassment of him with his conspiracy theory texts and emails. So, finding jobs that work with ones mental health journey can be challenging, especially because there are so many people that don't understand and they actor themselves may have a complex history and may respond different ways to different triggers form the job they are doing. Luckily, I do understand mental health, past trauma, how pathology can affect emotions and be triggered by various things, and I understood this and issues that can arise for much of my career. It is the supporting environment that I create on my shoots, and flexibility to accommodate the actor if an issue arises, that makes them a fun place to work that also pays well.

Thanks,
JohnM