The Porn vs. Non-Porn Debate!

[G-Man]

So what does the G-Man think about this...
First the short answer. I agree for the most part with Blue.
If it's legal and not totally tasteless, live and let live.

Long answer... what do I mean by totally tasteless, I guess means my own personal limits of what I am willing to watch.
I do not know why, but I do not mind seeing a soft porn death scenes day in and day out like...
Janine Lindemulder (Strangle) in "Lady in Waiting"
Nikki Arlyn (Shot) in "Clay Pigeons"
who both die while having sex.
But for some reason (and just talking only about me) I get turned off seeing some other guys cock in a movie / video during a death scene.
Again, "Soft Porn" I can watch all day long if the movie is keeping me interested.
Now having said all that... I have seen some very good female death scenes in XXX movies /videos.
For those scenes, they did not occur during a XXX sex act.
"Lady Scare Face" and "En Garde" come to mind.

So I guess I am saying basically... I do not care where a death scene is from.
As long as the scene has good acting / direction that doesn't show dick and peeing, defecation or any other gross-out stuff.

[xj900uk]

Having said that, some producers I normally associate with xxx-necro porn like Chris B or John M have actually done some good non-necro stuff or scenes as well, which have really appealed to me

Damn shame John went customs-only. There are only three lift-up stranglings in any of his company's stores now, and two of them are my customs.

Yeah John was offering to do me a discount cut-price custom but as I am very poorly these days and too hard up for cash to be able to afford one even at a cheaper rate Pity as I am sure I could have got him to do make a good none-necro production

[Grace X]

I saw the conversation at DS, and left a single comment there, but alas trying to hold a balanced conversation over there is like sticking your toe into a tar pit, the next thing you know you are sinking in black muck wondering what the hell happened, lol.

Really, despite how Geno insults and degrades others, I have tried to focus with him on a cordial friendship and what aspects of the fetish world we share an interest in, but he makes it tough. I eventually just walk away from there with a headache...it's just not a fun place to even visit any more.

Anyway, I'm glad you brought the conversation here Blue honey, where we can talk about it intelligently, and with respect toward one another.

As I've said many times, I am not particularly fond of the word "porn", as it often seems to be used as a battering ram to bash forms of sexual stimulation that the basher of the moment doesn't like. It's dictionary definition (from Webster) is: : 1: the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement. 2:material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement.

Well, that's pretty straightforward. It doesn't mention film, but of course the same principle applies. It's the depiction of sex acts intended to stimulate erotic excitement. Personally, I enjoy watching explicit sexual material, from adult films to explicitly sexual death fetish flicks. But I enjoy non-explicit works too. So I'm glad that our genre and community embraces and expresses both.

One of Geno's talking points (or berating points, to be more accurate) is his assertion that the female population of the community fled DS en masse because he had allowed explicit producers to advertise and discuss their works on his board. The implication being that women will boycott any place that displays explicit sexuality. This of course is utter nonsense...the women of the community are intelligent, discriminating, and will choose to look at or not look at anything they enjoy. The presence of practically the whole female population of our community at FN (where explicit works are labeled, but welcomed), tosses his assertion into a cocked hat. In my humble opinion, his own abusive behavior is what chased away the gals. It's what chased me away.

But back to the question...do women as a gender hate sexually explicit works? Of course not. As with all things, there is a spectrum of tastes, from women who dislike explicit material, to those who really don't care either way, to those who enjoy it. Guys, I'm sure the same is true for you. Every individual is wired to sensual pleasure in different ways...sometimes subtly different, sometimes widely divergent. Respecting one another and being considerate of the full spectrum of tastes allows those pleasures to be fun and satisfying for all.

The vast majority of men and women in our community do show that respect and consideration. Thank heaven (or thank each other) for that.

XOX G

[xj900uk]

Interesting post and thank you for making your views known, Grace. I have to agree with you in that it wasn't the original necro-porn postings which chased female members away from DS

[Grace X]

I really don't have any problem with an anti-explicit sex policy on any board...I really think it is appropriate for DS to feature a focus on things that its owner enjoys. I wish that he would just do that, and stop the unrelenting cruel and ugly judgmental behavior...Geno can actually be fun and pleasant when he throttles back on the hurtful stuff. I would happily spend time there then, as most DS members (like you, xj, and I love our shared times together at FN as well) are reasonable and balanced and share their tastes without demeaning others. Most are dear friends, and of course I'm grateful we can hang out here and at other positive places on the web without all of that nonsense.

Just look at the environment here at FF. Blue doesn't do films with explicit sex...he focuses on adventure, noir and femme fatale themes that I find exciting and sensual. But I can come here as someone who does enjoy the work of other explicit producers and I know I am going to be treated with respect.

I think it is fair to say that whether our tastes run to explicit or non-explicit works (or to both, as mine does), we are here as death fetishists because we find erotic stimulation in scenarios of fantasy death. And we gather together because we enjoy one another's company in celebrating our fetish lives. And what could be cooler than celebrating that? I feel a thrill whenever I see a post on any board saying that a film, a story, a piece of artwork, gave some member of that board a sensual high. Even if it's not something that turns me on personally, I love seeing fulfillment achieved in any form. The splendid people of our community deserve to enjoy sharing that fulfillment together.

[xj900uk]

I couldn't agree more - these places should be a melting pot for different ideas and tastes, fetishes, observations - hell, we are all different, so it's only natural we would have different preferences! And who to say which is right and wrong? Now it's true I don't go for the necro-xxx stuff but only because it doesn't interest me, it's always signposted in advance so people know what the thread or point or posting is about before they dip in

[Egeek]

Like I said I know that ya alot of my stories dont hit peoples eyes. tastes or on a writing level. Not 100% sure on that but pretty sure on the tastes. But the same goes for me when it comes to tastes. how I create. How they create. I can create a scene out of lego that is of horror for example. one person may like it. many may not. Its not a great feeling to have not very big fanbase but its part being a creator too. the leasons. but it really does boil down to just not judging. we may censor our own work and mainly I do that for posting reasons but censoring others tastes and work. Its not good.

[xj900uk]

Yup, people should be encouraged to post their own ideas an dworks here, no matter how diverse, personal or explicit they might be. Put a warning first if needs be. THen it's up to people if they want to read or look at them. Constructive criticism is always useful. If something is bad or doesn't work, at least be honest and tell the author or artist why it doesn't work and what could be changed or developed in order to make it 'work'

[jhlipton]

(Although I do think that the producers have a certain amount of personal fun making them when they are the Screwor.)

I once suggested that the fantasy death fetish was starting to take a back seat to porn because producers appeared to be coming up with any excuse possible to fuck their models. As a consequence, the death scenes were looking more like an afterthought. I imagined the conversations on set were going something like, "Whew! Damn, that was a nice! What's next? Oh, right, the death scene." And I had seen enough videos to give me that very impression. It's part of why I stopped buying anything with porn in it, because my experience was telling me the death scene was going to be shit.

Maybe that's where Geno's thinking stems from. He's gotten the same impression over the last few years, but taken it to the extreme by insisting that any producer who includes porn isn't a "true" fantasy death fetishist.

Neither JohnM nor the producers of PsychoThrillers "fuck their models". They make necro-porn because it sells. JohnM can't make throat-lifts if no one is going to buy them.

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I'm one who likes porn (before or during the death scene). "Crazy Family" and various "strangle-fucks" from PsychoThrillers are among my faves. I don't care for necro-sex (or time-freeze) because I want to hear the girl(s) re-act, whether it be with pleasure or pain.