What Encourages More Female Participation at a Site?

[Sandi]

This is not meant to 'emphasize' Women, or what we think or how we think as being more important to a Site than the desires of the Men who comprise the vast, vast majority of the Membership.

Yet, at 'some places', such as PP in the past and the DS Story Forum, Women participate 'more' than at this Main forum at FF or at the Main forum at DS. And it is by NO means due to the Women desiring ONLY women to talk with, just the opposite is true!!!

And despite the best and constantly-encouraging efforts of Blue and his Moderators, the level of overall female participation here as well as at DS is pretty low, considering how active we WERE at times in the past.

Some of that is due, as mentioned elsewhere, IMHO to the 'old guard', the women who have been around for 'years' in the community, 'moving on' somewhat, not being as constantly around and involved. Yet even a Lady Ash who has essentially dropped away, posts more when women are addressed, and when experiences with Ash are discussed.
And 'we' have not been replaced by anything CLOSE to the level of participation by Newer Female Members. That can be purely because of the changes in my 14+ years, because this is 'not new' anymore, not unusual, not something unique, in terms of people sharing mostly anything online in 2012.

So that's just another level of 'questions', in terms of what ANY site, Grace and Kelli's included, can or must do to 'find' or attract more Women into active posting status.

Why is it, that at some places women post more than at others, if it matters? I'd be interested in hearing from both genders on this subject.

My personal opinions have been spoken frequently, that my experiences in 14 or whatever years in the Community have shown to me that we (the Women) participate far more when the discussions are about 'us', personally, when men and women both interact and the Men want to know what specifics turn each of us on, and then direct their comments personally, such as discussing how they see what the Women are saying and embrace it to the point of desiring more of the personal talk back-and-forth. And to see ourselves in stories, or Ric's movies and such, is JUST what we enjoy!

When I started to think about this, I realized something else, that when movie roles (Producer or Mainstream) and actresses are discussed, very rarely does a Woman comment, me being often the exception...lol. So to me that should demonstrate what I'm trying to say, that in general the Women come for interpersonal interactions rather than 'discussions' of fantasy in general terms or in terms of discussing a specific actress or a specific film role 'we' have seen and enjoyed.

So I throw that out there for comment or even rebuttal if someone believes or has statistics to show that percentage-of-membership wise, women interact at 'discussion' threads more than I believe we generally do.

When an Ash talks about 'another encounter' with a Steph, more women will post there than to a 'general discussion' thread or to a thread about a movie or specific actress. When Kelli posts her pictures, women also chime in because it's about her, personally. Yada yada.

So that all is driven by the Women, yes, but also by the Men of a Site and 'what' that Majority wants in their Houses of Pleasure. Going 'way back', Fatal Females and DS were always more about 'discussions' of movie roles and as Producers proliferated, about Producer Actresses' roles and performances and looks and acting and all of that.

Other than these thoughts, why do YOU think Women 'gather' more quickly at certain places than Others? What makes those places 'different' or more seems to encourage (not overtly, for each Site encourages female participation, of course!) more Women to want to post?

Do you disagree with my assertion that when more than a few Female Members gather, we enjoy the interpersonal among ourselves as women PLUS enjoy the interaction with Men?

I simply cannot 'put my finger' on specific ways of getting to what we all want to know, Blue....lol.....or many do, anyway.

My belief is that most men enjoy women participating and the interactions between genders that result; I've surely heard 'many' men say over the years that just the interchanges with real women here have aided them in being more free with their own fantasies.....and that goes the other way also! After all, if a Woman is not 'put off' by a Man describing how he would enjoy killing her in fantasy or just watching her in those throes, then it only makes sense that those Men would become more free TO interact and discuss the 'details' and 'whys' and specific areas of attraction, eroticism,sensuality, turn-ons, etc.

So I cannot describe 'what' creates that atmosphere that encourages Women, other than to reiterate that it is personal commentary from Members about us, specifically. Kelli makes it easy...LOL...she supplies real pictures of the real Kelli and the fantasy minds of men AND women go crazy....lol. Her photos are not only erotic, they usually conjure up 'some' fantasy thoughts of 'something' a Man (usually) can fantasize 'doing' to Kelli to put her in that position and with that 'look'. She comes across in ways that attract Men, and it's not just her 'looks'. She inspires comments about her, and that's what 'we' enjoy the most, 'we' being the Women.

And back in the Yahoo Groups, we all had 'our' pictures, images that were seen as 'us', whether they were really us or not, so the Men of the Group had visuals to fantasize with and about, not just screen names. So I think all of that encourages more Women to post, though almost none of us will post real pictures of ourselves,for obvious reasons.

And we would 'all' post images of favorite 'moments' in fantasy pictures, where the tongue was hanging out or the bullet hole was there or the 'clutch' was taking place or the eyes were closed and head thrown back...whatever. We could do that here also, but we do not. Why? I have no answer, because it is surely not that Women feel intimidated or ANYTHING but encouraged TO post here by Blue and Members.

I will only 'note', and I do not know how much 'effect' this has or does not have, that Kelli and Grace's new board centers on the Woman, on the entire panoply of not only physical but even moreso the mental aspects of sensuality and attractions to some specific fantasies within our ilks.

That makes FOR those 'personal discussions' that we enjoy the most, talking about US, the specific Women of the Board. AND we enjoy Men telling us what turns THEM on personally! That begins to 'build' a relationship, online only as it is. We have 'real' fantasy partners here, and women love that personal 'touch' and how a Ric in films or stories goes to great lengths TO learn what each Woman he depicts most enjoys in HER fantasies, and he and the Others who do that, who take the time and effort to pay attention to us and what we individually like, is the biggest turn-on of all, in ways. And Ric is but one example though a very major one who has consistently tried to 'welcome' nearly every new Female Member by depicting her in a movie the way SHE enjoys experiencing 'fantasy death'. That is what we like.

Also, when one Woman says 'this is what make me hot' about fantasy, other Women are more likely to chime in with their own reactions and personal 'stories'.

Any thoughts? I apologize for being so general, but other than saying 'make it more personal for the woman' (and I offer few ways here to do that...LOL), I truly do not know the answer BUT freely admit that my own desires are fueled more when more Women are involved in the threads.

And that's not because I want only Women around!....lol. The entire joy OF the Community for me is having both genders share and for most women that is surely true also!

These places are free areas for 'playing around', in a sense, for 'having' or 'being with' another Man, or another Woman, in totally innocent conversations and imaginary 'scenes' and such. That's sort of attractive to most who are in monogamous (or supposedly so...LOL) relationships offline. So when either gender 'plays around' it's far more 'potent', if you will, to have it personal rather than more impersonal discussion about a movie.

Just speculating and wondering here, because there must be 'certain triggers' that make more Women post.

If that is significant or important to the Majority, I have no clue and no speculation. If Members are interested, they'll comment here or better say what I've tried to say; if not, the thread will die quickly and I also have no problem with that! Just tryin' to spark some conversation because it's rather obvious to this Woman that 'certain' things cause us to gather more at certain places.

Hopefully other Women here will comment, plus Men.

Just tryin' to help get more to the root causes of certain behaviors, Blue, those of the women in the community...lol. We do what we do and even we likely cannot tell you why we do what we do, quite often....lol.

But we are Women and women do enjoy personal attention....so I've heard. ...and joking aside, it is that personal attention to us that we enjoy the most. Same as Kelli, who generates mega-interest when she posts pictures and she'll make tons of comments to everyone who comments to her, but rarely will Kelli be seen at a thread discussing a 'movie', or far more rarely, anyway. So it is with all of us or almost all of us who have been 'very active Posters' at least at some point(s) over the years.

Sandi

[kelli]

well leave it to a blonde to steal my thunder.

sorry, i didn't see this post before i responded over on the other (hidden) board under the topic "FF's Focus". i think i may have inadvertently answered your question over there.

[Ric delCampo]

I am all for what ever attracts more female members to participate.

I try to do my part in the stories I post. Rather than creating purely fictional characters, I try to base (some of) my characters on the fantasy alter egos of the female members, ( and occasionally, the male members.)

Of course I am also selfish in this. By doing that, I may elicite feedback from the females I may have featured; and if I have succeeded in 'turning them on,' then it is all that much more fun for me.

[kelli]

you are very generous to us, ric.......and we all love you for it!

[LadyAsh]

The main encouragement for me is exactly the thing Sandi covered, relationships. I have made a lot of friends that I cherish. BTW I am so glad to see Ric back. I have to admit to preferring lighthearted interaction. After all, I am here for fun, it is my me time. When I role play I like to have my feelings and needs taken into account. So often, it is all about what he wants to do to me and I am left feeling very dissatisfied. I guess the encouragement there is that the guys truly care about us and our emotional needs. And blondes can be very needy.

The main discouragement is feeling like I am being patted on the head or talked down to. OK, I may be a dumb blonde but I am a smart dumb blonde.

It doesn't take much encouragement to get me started but I can very easily shy away if I get abused, even very mildly because I am opening up, letting the forum see the real me, my emotions, my desires, my fantasies, what Liz is all about.

[Steph]

Ash's word: fun.

Meeting interesting people, exchanging ideas, being ravished or blowing them away. And then being able to do it all over again!

[Vanessa]

When I first got into this community, I was very active. I would role play fantasies through either AOL Messenger or YIM, and even jump into chat rooms to role play. I also wrote a new story every month (it seemed) and would share them with every site I was a part of (unless it was exclusive for membership). I even dabbled in retouch/manipulation work. I started in MSpaint and ultimately ended up working in photoshop. I was never that great, but I got the idea across. Doing all this was easy back then, because I worked a thankless office job, where the work only seemed to compile and no respect/appreciation was given.

Things started to change for me when I decided to quit that job and go back to nursing school (thanks to the support of my wonderful girlfriend). I started to enjoy my real life more. Then, when I got a position with my hospital, everything felt right in my real life! Of course, my job became more demanding and this interferes with my writing. I have plenty of ideas, but lack the motivation to write by the time I get home.

So now we come to where I feel I am at now. I think of myself as one of the old-school snuff bunnies. At one time, I think I was nearly a "house-hold" name. I had a following, a fan-base. Artists and writers alike were inspired by me and would write stories or create images for/about me. It was a sort of rush! Now, I get a lot of promises and most of them are never realized. There are at least six artists and three writers who are supposed to be doing "commissions" for me, but I haven't heard from most of them in over a year.

So, as this star begins to shimmer and burn out, she begins to feel a waning interest. My lack of participation in this community stems primarily from a short availability of time. When I get home from work, I just want to peruse the stories/art to see if any thing flips my switches. So, I tend not to comment on anything I feel I've seen a dozen times already (mostly asphyxia content) and usually comment on anything that involves a pantyhose-clad victim (to try and promote more of it).

Another thing that diminishes my enthusiasm for this community is the silly rivalries. Whether they are real or just a gimmick to promote activity, it turns me off. I have stopped giving my two cents on such threads. I don't need the stress.

Finally, a lack of consideration. This is something I don't deal with very frequently. This usually was derived from role playing, which I don't do much any more. I had a stable of people I loved to RP with. They knew my quirks/interests and would work with them without coming across as condescending. Unfortunately, most (if not all) of these people have vanished. The last ten RPs I participated in, the other person would tell me how to play my role or would just out-right take over my role without caring about my input. THIS is a quick way to make THIS girl decide she is not interested in playing with you again, or even finishing the RP we are in at the time! When a girl says she likes post-mortem body play, that doesn't mean just douse her corpse with gasoline and set it ablaze...

Any ways, I should probably wrap this up before I Sandi it up (love ya, Sandi)! I don't know if I answered the question(s) asked, and if I didn't, simplify the questions, put them in one post, and I will go down the line and answer them.

Biyas!

Vanessa

P.S. - When Kelli posts her pictures, the only thing that comes to my mind is how magnificently beautiful she is! Age isn't even a factor, she is just a beautiful woman!

[kelli]

omg vanessa thank you so much. if you could see me right now you wouldn't say that tho!

thanks for sharing your thoughts....i agree and can identify with most of them.

[Vanessa]

You are welcome, hon! You are one red-hot fiery momma, girl. And you are far braver than I in this community! Of course having three stalkers try to actually snuff you WILL make you paranoid. But these days I have a pet wolf, a big knife my daddy gave me, a cop for a life-partner, and an angel of death for a best friend (he's a cuddly teddy bear unless you threaten someone he cares about). Despite all that, I still will not share images of myself with anyone in the community... again... = )

Vanessa

[Arthur]

Perhaps one of the reasons females don't participate more is because of the very personal nature of this fetish and the many reasons why men and women sometimes have difficulty communicating with each other on personal subjects.

I am at a decision point in terms of how much I want to invest of myself in these forums. I have experienced a great deal of frustration in trying to find my voice and place in this community (meaning all of the boards). Weeks ago in the "Where have all the members gone?" topic, I first started to struggle with issues of why I am unable to communicate effectively with the women in this community. I think that some of these issues may relate to why there is not more participation by females in this community. Even if that is not the case, I need to vent some frustrations that I have.

Part of the responsibility for the failures in communication is mine. I was raised in an environment where men were not supposed to express their feelings because it was considered unmanly, and I am still fighting to overcome that. I know intellectually that there is nothing wrong with a man expressing personal feelings, but my reluctance to do so persists for reasons I am still trying to understand.

The death fetish is all about experiencing profound emotions, which makes talking about the death fetish in personal ways with women a fundamentally difficult process for me. I find it easier to talk about personal aspects of the fetish by means of private communications, but my attempts to do so recently have met with little or no response.

When I look back over my old posts, I am surprised at how frivolous some of my posts sound. Some of my frivolous babble is an attempt to use small talk as a way of relaxing and some of it are failed attempts at more meaningful talk. I apologize for bombarding people with frivolous babble.

People have voiced objections to small talk about movies unrelated to the death fetish. I strongly object to that criticism. When I talk about something that interests me in a non-fetish movie or some other non-fetish subject, I am saying in part that fetish videos do not fulfill me because I am a fully developed man with many other interests and beliefs.

I am thinking that it might be easier for men and women to discuss the personal side of the fetish if we got to know each other better by discussing other less sensitive topics in the All Topic Discussions Forum. I have made efforts in the past to initiate discussions on interesting non-fetish subjects, but my efforts often generate little or no response. Perhaps the women here do not want to discuss non-fetish topics on this board because that is a part of their outside life and they don't want their outside life to collide with this fetish community. I can understand that opinion and accept it.

I know that I am but one member out of 5,700. A small speck of dust on the planet. I accept that too. But it is not fair for someone to refuse to communicate and then complain about a lack of participation. Maybe I need to go to Yahoo Groups for meaningful discussions with women on non-fetish topics, rather than attempt to do so here.

Communication stops when people stop talking to each other.

I have strong mixed feelings about Fet Noir. Grace and Kelli have bent over backwards to be friendly and welcoming to people and I appreciate their efforts. However, I feel out of place there. Sometimes Fet Noir seems like a reunion among old female friends who have a rapport and history with each other. I am an outsider, because I am a man and relatively new to the community (active for only two months). The women who actively participate in the forums are the heart and soul of this community, so I will continue to hang out at FN but more quietly than before, until I figure out how I fit into all of this.

For me to be a productive member of this community means I must contribute something of value to the community. I currently have none of the skills needed to write short stories, post poser art work, or photo manips. I haven't yet seen enough fetish videos to feel comfortable writing reviews of videos. I am slowly exploring various ways to express myself creatively, so I could contribute something of value here.

I am wondering if there are females who want become active members of this community but who haven't spoken up because they are asking themselves the same questions about how to contribute something of value to the community.

Arthur

[kelli]

well, arthur my dear.....it seems to me like you have some self-esteem and self-worth issues, much as i do, so i can fully understand. let me first assure you that you needn't have any particular talent to participate in discussions or belong to any of the forums.

now, about not feeling like you fit in. most of the women who have surfaced at fetnoir have been around a long time, so we all pretty much know each other. but i don't want you to feel like we are a clique or anything like that. i myself feel like an outsider a lot because i don't share the same bad girl fantasies that most of my sister fetishists do. they are a bunch of rough and tumble women who like to fight and dish out as much hurtin' as they receive. i seldom have that kind of fantasy. but it's ok, we are all different.

perhaps we should not be talking about this on mr. blue's board, because you are talking mostly as it relates to you on fetnoir. but i am sure he won't be too mad at us.

just remember, we were all new to this at one time and were all as unsure of ourselves as you are. don't do anything that makes you uncomfortable, but don't give up something that brings you happiness and fulfillment because of self doubt. hugs.

[Bluestone]

Well said, Kelli, and I have absolutely no objection to using FF to discuss any subject relating to any other community board. This is a general community discussion board and that is why it has on-topic, off-topic and all of the other forums. So, discuss away.

Arthur, we were all where you are today vis-a-vis the community... and there will be many more like you who will come along in the years to follow and also feel unclear about their place in the community. I didn't start in this community as a producer, nor did I immediately start to write stories. I, like you, felt like an outsider at a party of close friends. Once I started to interact and share with others on the boards, I became a lot more comfortable, but it is a process. It takes time, but believe me FF and FN are very welcoming forums, and in time you will feel more and more comfortable sharing at these and other forums. By the way, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It is appreciated.

Blue

[LadyAsh]

Arthur, if I may address you like that,

I contribute very little these days. I cannot draw, I cannot use poser or any other such thing, I don't even know what they are called. I used to write a little but have neither the time or the inclination now. I do serve as Arlen War's muse on SADOD, we role play a bit, he writes and asks me what I do next and I try to inspire him with my wit, intelligence and beauty (that's 3 strikes against me). All I do is try to encourage others now. And I'm not sure how good I am at that. However, I love making new friends and if you ever want to chat you can e-mail through fetnoir or message me here. I don't bite, well not very hard and it is always playful!

[Arthur]

Thank you Kelli, Blue, and Lady Ash for your kind thoughts. Yes, Lady Ash, you can call me Arthur. I have been called much worse than that over the years! I look forward to participating in this community in some capacity for years to come.

Arthur

[Drizzt]

Whether it's cultural conditioning or a "biotruth", observation here, on PP and DS appear to confirm that men are more visually oriented and women are more textually oriented. That is, men are more interested in clips/pics, while women are more interested in stories/roleplay.

If one were interested in attracting more females to FF, emphasizing the text would be a good first start. Unburying the story forum from beneath 500 video review forums for an equal amount of producers, to begin with. Creating an RP forum. Doing a bit of official endorsal - participating in RP / featuring particularly good stories on the site. Having someone review / write fanfiction about particularly good Bluestone videos, a-la Grace on Psycho Thrillers.