Why are machinegunnings so badly acted?

[shootingmad]

I have just finished watching the gun play freebie demo from JohnM.

I totally loved the gun fun scenes, but the machinegun ones took me to this thread.

Now please John dont take this personally as Im just bringin your video as an example because its the most recent one. But my "critic" (in shape of a question) is towards to the main portion of the fetish producers that for some reason (I think its customer based) deliver mostly bad acted machinegunning scenes.

I have seen videos from Bluestone, KHP, JohnM and AF.

Overall I think I only can think of 1 or 2 from AF and KHP that really made my day.
Bluestone`s Petra and Suzi scenes I`ve seen were very dissapointing and the ones I saw in gun play demo from John were way too cheese to me (I especially see as a wasted opportunity the scene where the girl is on her knees and the rest shoot at her).

Now im not saying Bluestone and JohnM suck (I love some of their products and believe they are mostly talented). Im saying that, even if those scenes were like that because they felt a bigger portion of the customers would like it, or because they were asked to do it that way; I can accept the premise but can`t like the final product.

Things that annoy me most are the very irreal shaking from girls, they seem more like dancing and albeit the machinegun fetish to me at least involves a shaking, it has to be a little more violent and brutal. And im not saying brutal in terms of blood (which I like btw), but in the way they should scream and jerk.
Now I do have the feeling that most of the machinegunning scenes come from customs since I bet they dont sell much to an open audience. I think its a small niche. So I believe most of the "multiple shooting" customers really want a long portrayed shaking scene that borders the line of cheesyness (sp?). Thats fair enough I guess.

But what if im wrong?

On another point, shootings are mostly hard to make sellable as they have a very short erotic scene involved once the gun is firing. So in order to make a video plausible for audience most producers have to come with an idea to drawn the scenes longer and still make a good product out of it. So if that is already hard with a single gun and two or three bullets, then a full chest machinegunning is a real challenge.
However, from the videos Ive seen that I really LIKED the way to deal with that was adding wall slides, or a more lenghty fall down.

Either she gets shot and jerks against a wall sliding it down, or she gets machinegunned and still keeps her balance only to then fall on her knees, and secondly on her back lying widespread.
Oh and the overkilling, oh god I hate it when she is almost lying and the guy keeps firing (nothing wrong with that) and she twitches and rolls, and makes some weird movements with her hands... it totally spoils the scene to me.

Dont get me wrong, I love overkills but not done in that way.

If you want to make scenes longer You can have her still cupping her breasts after the fusillade and moaning a little... I dont know, I can think of some ways to deal with the problem of "lenght". And at the same time make the scene believable and tasty for those of us who like machinegunnings but more brutal ones.
But from a customer point of view of course. I guess there are other techincal issues and sale-keypoints in the middle to explain why things are that way.

And again, I have to point this redundantly because im scared that it is taken as that I want a girl being butchered to pieces with a .66mm machinegun. What I mean with "brutal" is that I want the girl to really scream out loud, a two or three vowels scream, and not a drawn out multipaced moan as if she was masturbating. It should be a scream close to a one coming from a shotgun blast.

another common mistake (in my opinion as a customer of course and with no experience as a filmmaker) is to make the sound too loud. I lose her screams because the "ratata" is way to loud. I like the sound of her chest being shot, and that is good and usually muffled so it combines very well with her screaming.

Oh well, just a little ranting... to see how many other machinegunning fans are there and how different our tastes might be.

Take care,

SM

edit: ps: luckily there are still good written stories covering this niche. Just wished more girls liked it

[JohnM]

Thanks, Shootingmad.

To be honest, the machinegunnings within gun funs are supposed to be that way. Gun funs are not about a violent, realistic machine-gunning. Gun funs are about boobs bouncing. With almost all of the machine-gunnings contained within gun funs customs, the style was dictated by the customer who ordered them.

It would be like, if I wanted a drama, but went to see a comedy instead.

You want a certain type of machine-gunning, you need to find one that suits your needs. Gun fun is certainly a poor choice. The scene where the girl was on her knees as you mentioned--again, was played for comedy and sarcasm as was obviously by the fact that it was put to crazy synchronized music to drive the point home. Gun funs are, in fact, just FUN. :-) But your welcome for the freebie.

Now, if a producer is making a serious attempt within their budget and constraints to produce a machine-gunning that is not being stylized for a specific custom, I would then love to hear your comments.

When you get a chance, review this one:
http://pkfstudios.com/content/videos.php?id=329

This was a short done in order to practice two different effect treatments--one with clothing, one without. I feel that Lydia's reactions for the scope of the scene are good. The overall scene is not serious, but the moments of shooting and death throws are played out well.

Of course, a real machine-gunning would tear the girl apart. Her body, would be un-recognizable, flesh chunks would be everywhere, organs all over the floor and there would be nothing but a chunk of meat left. So, by wanting machine-gunnings with pretty holes in the first place, we are fantasizing the entire process. A real reaction is not possible. There would be no real reaction, she would just be pulverized in an instant without much thought. What your asking for is a reaction to your fantasy standards for a fantasy machine-gunning. There is no common standard. There is only what each directors and actors interpretation of what the reaction would be within the confines of still being sexy and appealing to fetishist.

Anyhow, I think the best way to get the reactions you want are non-fetish mainstream clips. Fetish clips by nature are going to be stylized and extended.

Thanks,
JohnM

[Dalila di Capri]

Shooting mad,

I think before we assess the actresses and their producers let's clarify soemthing:

You are a breast shooting fan correct?

If so you are asking or something very difficult.

I have a soft spot for soldiers and because of this I seem to attract them as fans and friends.

Any of these fine gentlemen will tell you that if you empty four or five machinegun rounds into a woman's breasts she is going to go down hard and fast. Not much time to be sexy, especially if you hit the heart.

Now this same problem does not occur with belly machinegunnings.

I have done both.

Dennis recently re-ran my Kappa Kappa Die (filmed 5 years ago) on CnB.

My crazy Dean of Students finally meets her end at the hadns of her accomplice by way of machine gun.

I take two volleys in the belly and finally a volley in the right breast (just to make sure that my heart is not hit and I can linger in the death scene)

Now our FX were still developing so I am sure it is not to the standards of what we ourselves do with shootings these days, but I tried to make the acting in each burst of machine gun fire realistic.

I do belly only machinegunnings these days because I want the characters to linger, and even a right breast machine gunning realistically just goes too far for me. The girl would be dead in seconds. There would be no believable lingering time.

But it seems as though what you are asking for is almost "custom" in nature. You want a specific sound...one or two scremas as opposed to small sexy grunts that go with each shot.

Your issue isn't really about poor acting on the part of the models or poor producing... but rather the satisfaction of a type of fantasy sound.
I get more requests for many little sexy grunts as opposed to one or two long shrill screams when I do machine gunnings.

I cannot speak for John M, Blue, AF or the other major producers.

But all of the producers mentioned above work with wonderful actresses and are most likely trying to satisfy a general fantasy request, or perhaps a specific custom request that may differ from your fantasy.

There are of course 2 ways to cure yoru issue.

1.
Run a poll about how a girl should react when shot in the breast via machine gun and see if there are enough people who share your opinion that producers would be influenced to do it your way.

2.
Order a custom and specify your demands.

Give this a try and then perhaps we can see if Suzi and Petra can satsify your need for breast carnage.

Baci

[Max5s]

I don't want to criticize any particular producers, but I find that most (but not all) of the machinegunnings are pretty laughable as well. On the other hand, I think that a number of the producers who venture into this sector are aware of how the videos look and make them only to meet a certain demand for the product. I'd say the same thing about decaps. I've yet to see one that looks very real and that goes for the ones I contributed efforts on as well.

[shootingmad]

Hi John, thank you very much for your thorough answer.

I`ll divide my answer in two main parts:


Firstly I have to disagree with the first assessment. You start off the ground that I expect reality out of a "fantasy gun play scenario" and as it might look that way from my comments, I think you are leaving out the fact that some of the scenes in the video portrayed with one single gun still attempted to represent a realistic reaction from the actress.
You have them fighting, screaming, pleading, and reacting to the shots. Yes, I`ll give you that they do some stuff that are funny and somehow a parody of the whole situation. But you can`t deny that some other excerpts from the video do entitle some more seriousness in the shots. Or at least that`s what I feel from the entire 8 minutes short.

Secondly, I understand what you mean by fantasy standard and it is true. However, I have seen fetish related material with successful attempts at filming "realistic" machinegunning scenes.

Now the realistic part of it is what makes the whole issue a very delicate problem. Because it even involves a philosophical matter as to what realism really is within a context of fantasy. And its almost 2am here so I wont get into that now

Notwithstanding this, my point was aimed at the 10-20 seconds of a scene, not a whole video. Let me say this differently but with an example:

I can adjust reality to a fantasy scenario if I only take some parts of my understanding of that reality and "cheesy it up" a little to fix it to the fetish material, ALL WHILE I add the other fetish related content. Lets for example say Im Bluestone and I am filming with Suzi. I want to make a machinegunning with her. But I know that If I do it the way I want it then it`ll be a 10-12 seconds scene and thats about it.
Then why can`t I just do those 10-12 seconds scene as a secondary part of the whole plot? like a dream sequence, a twin scenario... or other cheap tricks that lets me both film a sort of realistic machinegunning while at the same time focus on the "main" kill that is the sell-spot (an asphyx, a shooting, etc). That way you are pleasing both audiences.

Yes, I understand that if it were THAT simple then I wouldnt be here discussing this, but as I said im just ranting off so im not really blaming any of you guys about this. Just trying to get it out of the system. So I hope no one takes offense at this.

Cheers!


Dalila,


Maybe I chose the wrong words because it seems to me you took my message in a very different way I intended it to make. My fault I guess, I should stick to spanish

When I point to "realism" im not asking a 100% of it, as you say im pretty much customizing my likes into a fetish scenario where I know what I want and how I want it. But im always open for surprises as well.
Im in no way trying to demean an actress skill to perform, or to diminish a producer abiilty to film. That is not what I meant and im sorry if it sounded that way.
What im saying is that based on the facts that I HAVE seen scenes of the like in the fetish related industry and have seen actresses portraying the scenes I like, then I conclude it is doable.
I like Suzy a lot and think she is a terrfic actress. Same with Petra. All im saying is that elements I`d like to see in a machinegunning are usually missing in most productions I see. From what I reading from the responsers from producers then it seems to be more a custom issue and I dont like the way it sounds when you say "cure your issue". Theres nothing to cure as there is no illness in it. Its just a segmented demand and thats about it.

Both you and John explained about how a machinegunning really is in real life, or what it would really look like. I hear that, and I agree with that. In fact I already knew what it would be like. But yet again, im not asking that 100% realism in the fantasy scene, just some elements of it. As opposed to the usually cheese ones I see in most cases.

[Bluestone]

SM,

The Petra video as well as several other MG videos that I have made were customs, and the customer was extremely happy with the results. If someone ordered a custom along the lines of your fantasy, that's how I would shoot that video, and my actresses would be directed to give the customer what they want. Frankly, other than for these customers, I have not been requested by Bluestone fans in general to produce MG scenes. That's the simple answer to your queries as far as my videos are concerned. "Safe House?" (Part 2) was also a custom involving Kerie being machine gunned, and the customer was very satisfied with her acting. She gave him what he wanted, as well as some of the screams that you referred to in your comments above.

I hope that clarifies why those videos were directed and acted in the way that they were.

Blue

[JohnM]

SM,

Like I said, what you saw and what most of the machine-gunnings are in context of gun-fun are customs. They are made specifically for a certain person and appeal solely to the audience intended for. You may not understand Rodzilla's customs, but that is no reason to use them as examples of bad machine-gunnings when in no way, shape, or form are they meant to be anything but what his specific fetish requires. They are exactly what they are supposed to be.

If, on the other hand, you look at my applied-effects shootings, you will probably find that they are different. But to be honest, most of the machine-gunnings you see by various producers are probably customs.

Anyhow, since I am in the giving mood, here is a really old movie, that is meant to be silly. But, the machine-gunning is decent for when it was made. Today, of course, the effects would be much better. Anyhow, enjoy and as etiquette typically would dictate for free things, if you like it say so, if you don't, well, hey, it was free. :-)



TImely Termination 100MB
http://www.filedropper.com/timelyterm

Preview Picture:
http://pkfstudios.com/samples/previews/ ... review.jpg

Thanks,
JohnM

[bellystabs]

Thanks, John! The Christmas season started early thanks to you.

[kevin67]

Great video, I loved the ending.

[Peter]

Here is a little tidbit, an excerpt from one of my videos. I can't give you the whole video or people would have no reason to 'pay' me for the whole video. This scene is the first of three machinegun busts that Carrie takes. The others are similar in the way she takes them. Shortly after the end of this clip, Carrie get's hold of the gun again and raises it to fire at the shooter, whereupon he fires another burst into her, again in the belly, but a bit higher up. She goes down, hard, and lays there twitching but still not dead. (Carrie is one tough lady.) She very slowly manages to get the gun in her hand again, as she is not dying without trying to her last. And as she raises the gun to fire, a third burst is emptied into her chest, which slams her back and ends her.

'Machinegunned Carrie'

[shootingmad]

Thank you both John and Peter for your contributions.

I will not comment/review on videos that Ive seen for free as it wouldnt be very netiquette (unless requested).

I will John, however, try to buy the video you mentioned and see that one.

Blue, I wasnt really asking for a response from you (or John for that matter) although my thread started with a question. It was more a venting off than a real request or demand from unsatisfaction.
Im sure your actresses are capable of delivering what the customers ask, and should I ever do a custom with you i know they`ll do their best to make me happy.

Cheers.

[kelli]

thanks so much, peter and john for those. john, no offense, but i thought the bullet fx in that one were ever bit if not better than some i see recently. i think u had a bigger blood budget for shootings back then or something.

[JohnM]

thanks so much, peter and john for those. john, no offense, but i thought the bullet fx in that one were ever bit if not better than some i see recently. i think u had a bigger blood budget for shootings back then or something.

Actually, what your seeing is the difference between customs and company productions and then whether I am going for a fetish slant.

That was company--meaning something I did that was not influenced by being a custom. In addition, I was not going for and target fetish style--I just wanted to play with my effects later. Plus, I like blood. My only restriction was keeping it off the carpet. :-) It was also the first thing I ever shot with Emma and the second thing with Chris, so the acting was a little rough.

A lot of the shootings I do are customs and with few exceptions, these are the instructions I get. "small dark dot with trickle of blood". Yup--right.

But, don't worry, I have several unpublished with that level of effects and blood. I just have to get to them.

:-)

JohnM

[shootingmad]

I love Emma, she is one of my favourite actresses from your staff.

Do you get requests about shootings in the back with effects of the bullets coming through the front?

[JohnM]

I love Emma, she is one of my favourite actresses from your staff.

Do you get requests about shootings in the back with effects of the bullets coming through the front?

I never get requests, but I did that so far in a few released movies:

Peeping Tom (Picture #10)
http://pkfstudios.com/samples/previews/ ... review.jpg

White Trash Affair (Pictures #7 and 8) This goes through the back out the front and into the other girl she is standing in front of.
http://pkfstudios.com/samples/previews/ ... r_prev.jpg

The Plumber (Picture #7---opposite of what you asked)
http://pkfstudios.com/samples/previews/ ... review.jpg

I think I have done other, some are not edited yet.

Thanks,
JohnM