Question about Crime House and Advocate

[Awol Nate]

This morning presented a perfected example. I received an email about the latest Crime House movie - a full hour movie mystery! I'm tempted to respond back asking if I could purchase an abbreviated version (at a reduced price of course) that contains ONLY the death fetish content, only the killing/dying segments of the flick. I'm not sitting through an hour long movie (what was the plot again...?) to catch bits and pieces of fetish content. I don't care about the damn plot and an hour is way too long when all you want is wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am.

At most, Advocate might only produce something as edgy as Kubrick's A Clockwork Orange. And even that wouldn't fly nowadays. If he's setting his sights on mainstream content, prepare to see watered-down death fetish material in the context of a full-blown movie you'll have to sit through.

[Nyghtfall]

This morning presented a perfected example. I received an email about the latest Crime House movie - a full hour movie mystery!

Makes me miss Orgasmagoria's glory days of 6-minute scenes that much more...

[tommygun]

Nate, I hear you, and actually, I have the same sentiments about just wanting the core scenes in any fetish production. But I'm sure there's a different equation going on with Advocate's productions. He's reflecting the realities.

In today's market, a 6 minute fetish production is most likely not going to recover its costs. It's going to be a loss. On the other hand, an hour long movie that can be sold on YouTube as an R-rated crime flick, that reaches such a large market, that it can easily produce the sales needed to make a profit. And if one produces a bunch of them over time, so that a customer base is built up for those products, then it's an even better economic proposition for the producer.

I've talked to Hank Samuels about this many times. One can hire two females willing to get fully naked and have a noose stretched around their neck, or blood-and-bullet-holes put on their boobs and crotch, and then pay something to a couple of male "perpetrators," and food/drinks for the set, and lodging for those who must spend a night, and the cost of a set, plus wardrobe, plus good equipment and a prop locker, and make a few fetish clips. (Forgetting about the unpaid hours of organization time, on-set time, and post-production and marketing for the producer.). But rarely does that come to less than $1,000 a clip. And if you sell 50 clips at $15 with two death scenes, after the commissions to the selling site and payment processor, your net revenue is about $640 per clip.

In the old days, you could sell 300 copies of a clip. Now, getting to 50 is an accomplishment. And then it turns up on M****F***g**ess, for free because some clown didn't care about either the producer or his fellow fetish enthusiasts who enjoy good productions.

And that's also the underlying reason why the price of customs has gone up so much and the quality of the average clip has suffered. An experienced producer can't count on much general-customer-base revenues to help with the costs. So, a lot of ideas don't get made, and the ones that do, reflect unwanted and unfortunate efforts to cut costs.

I don't know where all this goes, ultimately. We still try hard to make excellent clips each time we do it.

[Awol Nate]

I do feel for the producers, tommygun. It almost seems like a producer can only do fetish material as a hobby alongside a regular income. I don't think anyone goes into this sort of industry to make money.

Maybe it would be stretching it too thin for Advocate, but maybe he could still offer shorter fetish material at affordable prices alongside his movie business? My concern is he will have to stray too far from proper fetish material just to get a broader audience. In the history of cinema, there have been controversial films that have been outright banned upon release, and these films were extremely tame compared to proper death fetish material created by a death fetish producer. Any portrayal of sexualized violence is very taboo in mainstream film and very discouraged. It's career suicide for any producer or director. Death fetish simply cannot magically be embedded in mainstream film no matter how creative you try to get. If he's going mainstream direction, I'm guessing he won't be producing much fetish content any more than Quentin Tarantino can (a big-time foot fetishist btw!).

[Awol Nate]

This morning presented a perfected example. I received an email about the latest Crime House movie - a full hour movie mystery!

Makes me miss Orgasmagoria's glory days of 6-minute scenes that much more...

Yes!!!! Very much!!!

[Bluestone]

Advocate was having login issues. I just got him connected again.

Blue

[Awol Nate]

I would love to hear Advocate's take on this. I'm just thinking that maybe there is a way to do both mainstream material and death fetish material. While filming his indie films, maybe he could add a filming segment where he completely "fetish-izes" the death scenes in the mainstream film he's working on and sell that material separately in addition to his film. Just the suped up fetish clips, five to ten minutes max, at a reduced price. He could have the best of both worlds.

Honestly I'm just saddened a bit. Crime House was my go-to for good fetish material at a "bang for the buck" rate. I have no input with them now simply because they went too big and I cannot afford them any more. They excelled at fetish material that was on point and affordable. I'd hate to see them compromise their talents for a broader audience that just might not take to them. Fetish and mainstream just cannot successfully mix. :(

[footstrangle]

Awol Nate: he is shooting my custom at the end of the month. It’s all kills one next to the other. Around seven. I bet that’ll satisfy y’all!!!

[Advocate]

I would love to hear Advocate's take on this. I'm just thinking that maybe there is a way to do both mainstream material and death fetish material. While filming his indie films, maybe he could add a filming segment where he completely "fetish" the death scenes in the mainstream film he's working on and sell that material separately in addition to his film. Just clips, five to ten minutes max, at a reduced price. He could have the best of both worlds.

Honestly I'm just saddened a bit. Crime House was my go-to for good fetish material at a "bang for the buck" rate. I have no input with them now simply because they went too big and I cannot afford them any more. They excelled at fetish material that was on point and affordable. I'd hate to see them compromise their talents for a broader audience that just might not take to them. Fetish and mainstream just cannot successfully mix. :(

Hello everyone and thanks for the discussion!
We have been on the market since 2015. We started with a simple studio, which, as they say here, developed according to the standards of a “fetish studio”, although, frankly, changing this is a stretched term, since any audiovisual work can be said to be a mini-movie. And even a five-minute video with murder and nudity, in fact, this is a genre short film, albeit filmed mainly for erotic pleasure.
But fantasies about the eroticisms of death are a subtle psychological world that includes an idea, an image, character development, and a plot. Giallo culture and slasher culture is also based on the erotic fantasy of a beautiful murder, while there was no Internet market at that time and people went to cinemas, Drive In Cinema, or rented cassettes from video rentals, and film producers were looking for sponsors to make feature films.
Now everything is simpler, more independent. But for many viewers, suspense, the setting, the quality of the material, the plot, the props are still important.
Tommygun very accurately described the business model of the market today.
But that's not the one reason of our modern format.
The fact is that any project, in my opinion, should develop. We as a team have grown a lot in almost 10 years on the market. We have gained a lot of experience, we have acquired a base of really appreciating us fans around the world who are moviegoers and want unique content in their collections, which includes erotic elements and is of value in terms of art.
Many want to see rich makeup, good acting. When we didn’t have location assistants before and we left packages from grocery stores in the frame, customers cursed at us. When we made bullets that didn't 100% hit someone's taste down to the millimeter, the clients cursed at us. And we understood that we can make films, that we all have film education. And there are such genres as exploitation cinema, giallo cinema, splatter punk, art house, mango cinema, anime, slashers. They are attributed to the culture of the 1970s, but independent films of such genres still exist today. And for many people, the fetish consists in an hour and a half film in order to remember their feelings from watching films of their youth, get used to the characters, experience catharsis when they kill not just a model girl, but a character who can be sorry, or vice versa, a bitch, which causes irritation, and her death on the screen is an act of retribution.
Even in sex, people have different preferences. Someone likes simple sex in different positions, someone likes long preludes in the form of role-playing games in different costumes and reincarnations. Fantasizing about film death and staged death is just a complex psychoanalytic process, so judging by our clients, who are also fans of such masters as Mario Bava, Dario Argento, Nikolas Winding Refn, Dadid Lynch, Donato Carrizi and many many others, we are also needed and important.
Not all studios are ready to go on week-long shoots and pour tons of blood like in Living Dead. Not all manufacturers are ready to conduct master classes among staff on color in films, lighting, and voice acting. And not everyone has a permanent team paid out of my pocket every month, regardless of the number of sales and customizations. But if we remove this team, we will not be able to shoot. And this is a social responsibility both to the customers and to the team. So my answer is no, I'm not sitting on the fence between the fetish industry and Hollywood cinema, I occupy the niche that I like and that my clients like. We are glad to each client, we have different lines, different tariffs, we agree on everything. 99% of our clients are satisfied and come back to us again.
And don't forget about inflation. Are you sure that for $100 in 2015, your grocery basket in the store is the same in 2023? Prices for transport, fuel, equipment, clothing, electricity, renting locations are seriously growing all over the world. Therefore, we increased the fees for actresses and permanent employees. Many happy clients write in reviews that their favorite actress did a great job, but the lighting technicians did a great job, and the props who dressed her, and the manager who found her, and the cameraman who shot her, and the focus puller who made her clear, and the makeup artist who made her beautiful, and the makeup artist who made her bloody.

We are grateful to each of you for your attention, custom, purchases, discussions.
We love everyone!

[Advocate]

Also we would like to answer fifty cents about why choosing the actress is already not starting option.
We have the schedule with customs and sometimes we have a window to get the custom for 500-1000$ to ½ of shooting day and we can choose from the actresses who is available. If we need to invite the exactly actress, it’s the separate shooting day and rescheduling of all the processes. Even serious projects sometimes need to wait and sometimes we have to delay projects because of weather, studios, actresses waiting and some other reasons.
Also the plot is very important for us for pricing. Erotic projects cost more because niche sales are very little and the majority sales are from public resources (youtube, vimeo, Imdb, gumroad, patreon for wide audience). We sometimes take very interesting projects about cops, cowgirls, sheriffs, investigation for old prices and make individual offers for our old and friendly customers.
And other reasons about development. Every profi has time for portfolio and time for sales. Starting profi invests his/her time for customer’s trust. Nobody knows quality and customers have risks ordering for new producer in our case. But ordering for famous producer has no risks for order. We had times between 2017 and 2021 when we were «the most cheap and the most quality production». We took everything but no porn and made it for little money for the trust of customers and reputation growth. I took bank credits for business development and invested 100 000$ and more every season from our own pocket. We couldn’t make movies bad and had no principal «you donated 300$ and we will shoot for 300$». I invested the rest myself. But I can’t work for loss. So now the situation is comfortable for every sides:
Premium customers get their products with great pleasure and we are great for each other.
Customers who want us but can’t pay enough but can wait, love us. find compromises only get their customs with no problems.
Customers for starting segments are only with us who like our production.
Every individual discussion, request, exemption can be found in email with us.
Only few ex-customers are in black list of our production. Everybody who was rude with us, spoke disrespectfully about our fellowship, put pressure on our team and made us feel nervous, they are simply not our clients and it is better for everyone not to work anymore. We treat every person with respect, but everyone has their own clients and everyone has their own producers, with whom it's great to work!
In general we’re friendly for everybody and the claim that we have moved away from the community, I think is exaggerated. We have tens of thousands of clips in the community, so different producers can have their own chips, their own differences, their own strengths and weaknesses, their own audiences. As we were members of the community, so we remain. We read the forum, follow the news, respect the values of every producer, artist, client, viewer, reader all over the world. We follow the news of cinema, follow the news of the community, we follow the tastes of people, we are tolerant of any opinions, we love each of our clients very much, we love each of our critics very much, we love all the other producers very much and we are happy to watch previews, sometimes subscribe to Patreon or buy a couple of copies to see the quality and creativity, we are happy when they buy us.

[Totallibertarianism]

Hi Advocate,

As I said you in many e-mails I sent to you, the old fetnoir site has reopened its door, it is called now Deadly Desires https://www.deadlydesires.net , many death fetish fans (potential new customers) are over there and they will be very happy if you come back to this new forum with your releases updates.

You should contact Snuff Princesse, she will be very grateful to create an account for you in the Deadly Desires forum => memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=16367

[Advocate]

Thank you very much. Yes, we've heard about this community from you before. We'll do a request for invitation.

[footstrangle]

I don’t think Crime House has moved away from our niche. Far from it. I think they’re productions have become more elaborate and with excellent standard of quality. Reason why I hired them to do my custom. Wait til it’s shot and comes out. I know a lot of you will like it.

[Awol Nate]

I don’t think Crime House has moved away from our niche. Far from it. I think they’re productions have become more elaborate and with excellent standard of quality. Reason why I hired them to do my custom. Wait til it’s shot and comes out. I know a lot of you will like it.

If the death/killing scenes look good, I'll consider purchasing it. But keep in mind, I will likely edit it down into just the killing portions and delete the rest of it. I can't stand even five minutes of "fat" in my clips. Even with my own customs, I create a gazillion clips from the material that are typically 5 seconds long to just over a minute. Most of my daily viewing clips are no longer than five seconds long. I select only the golden bits - loop that sucker and I'm good to go. :)